Saturday 29 February 2020

Living In Mythical Time

In SM Stirling's Emberverse series, after the loss of advanced technology and mass deaths in the Change, the handful of survivors reverts to living in mythical time. Thus, before the Change, the heroic killing of a bear would have been an event of biographical, or even possibly of historical, significance but would not have become a seminal myth as it does post-Change.

Poul Anderson's Gwydiona combine scientific knowledge with perpetual mythologizing of events. Thus, astrophysics coexists with a stellar creation myth. Those who must shelter from dangerous volcanic dust by entering a Holy City outside Bale time must first invent a myth to justify their presence in such a place at what would otherwise have been an inappropriate time.

The Gwydiona recount myths, then immediately recite text book explanations of their meanings which, to my mind, destroys the power of a myth. However, their social psychology turns out to be based on a massive collective self-deception. Some questions are met with evasions.

3 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

And Mike Havel only became "Lord Bear" because he was FORCED to kill a bear, way up close and far too personal, because Astrid Larssen had foolishly provoked it!

And what you described the Gwydiona as doing comes down to them pathetically trying to cope with their madness. Their "rationality" in non-Bale times was PRECARIOUS.

Ad astra! Sean

S.M. Stirling said...

Pretty much.

Mythology and rationality are uneasy bedfellows.

I've remarked here that the Roman Empire had severe, long-lasting political problems because its people, or at least its literate elite, were living in historical time when it was founded.

Hence they were always conscious that their monarchy had started with a successful general in the civil wars at the end of the Republic seizing power by naked force; and what one general could do, another could.

By contrast, the Germanics who invaded the Roman Empire after 406 were still living in mythic time -- thus historical events could be successfully mythologized, things like the wars with the Huns (incorporated in the Niebelungensaga) or, more practically, the divine origins of their kings, who claimed descent from Wotan.

This merged seamlessly with a developing Christian ideology of the "annointed king" (derived from Old Testament Biblical sources) to provide medieval Europe with a strong sense of dynastic legitimacy which tamped down forceable seizures of thrones, even if it didn't prevent them altogether.

And events like the life of Charlemagne got seamlessly folded into myth-cycles like the "Song of Roland", and the tales of fairyland and mythic heroes sleeping under mountains.

The ones Poul drew on for THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS, for example.



Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Mr. Stirling!

I agree with your comments, esp. the ones about the great difficulty the Roman Empire had gaining legitimacy. And that worries me if the US's political system breaks down and is replaced by a regime analogous to the one Augustus founded. WE are living in historical times and any successor to the current gov't of the US might all too easily suffer from the problems the Roman Empire had. What one general might do could just as easily be done by another.

I have read THE SONG OF ROLAND myself, and enjoyed it. But not, alas, not the Chansons about Holger Danske. I appreciated how Anderson used the Carolingian legends for THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS, rather than writing a story using the Arthurian mythos.

Ad astra! Sean