After Saracoglu, Draun is the other unpleasant character in this novel. Investigating a downed space boat, he hopes to find Terrans to kill:
"'We've many new-made dead tonight. The more Terrans for hell-wind to blow ahead of them, the better.'" (p. 547)
Tabitha realizes that Draun practices Old Faith rites neither from belief in the gods nor from traditionalism but because:
"...he enjoyed those slaughterous sacrifices." (p. 548)
He has challenged and killed in duels even though he has found it difficult to pay winner's gild and he keeps slaves.
Giving two shipwrecked Terrans no chance to surrender, he swoops down and beheads one with a long knife. However, Tabitha protects the second Terran.
I think that my lap top will benefit from some time switched off. Further, the friend from Birmingham, mentioned before, will visit tomorrow so posts might be few for a while.
18 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
And I disagree with you in finding Ekrem Saracoglu "unpleasant." I thought him very likable, and I think Anderson did as well. It's Christopher Holm (for most of the book) and Draun whom I consider the most unlikable characters in THE PEOPLE OF THE WIND.
Ad astra! Sean
I agree, Scaracoglu is doing his job with no more unpleasantness than necessity entails.
As Simonides of Keos said twenty-six hundred years ago: "So I will not waste my lifespan in the vain unprofitable search for a perfect man. If you find him, send me word. But that one I will love and honor who does nothing base from free will. Against Necessity, even Gods do not fight."
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
Exactly! The Earl of Anatolia was simply doing his job with the minimum possible amount of "unpleasantness."
Ad astra! Sean
He was also hoping to seduce Luisa and I think that it becomes clearer later that he promoted the war for careerist reasons.
Kaor, Paul!
HOPING is not the same as actually DOING it. Saracoglu always behaved like a gentleman to Donna Luisa, which is what matters. In fact, the young lady LIKED Saracoglu.
And I see nothing wrong with the Earl of Anatolia aspiring, say, to join the Policy Board. I also recall him mentioning that he would like to use the greater authority that would bring him to bring about certain reforms and changes for the better in administering the Empire.
Careerism in itself is not a bad thing.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I have been out all day. Saracoglu didn't DO it because he didn't succeed, not because he thought better of it. I think that he promoted the war solely for careerist purposes. This is my reading of Anderson's text. I will discuss further when I have reread as far as the relevant passage.
Assessing a fictional character is good practice for assessing real politicians and other decision makers.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I still disagree. While I have to speak now from memory, I think I recall Governor Saracoglu pointing out there had been clashes between Ythrians and Imperial citizens before the war--and that some had been initiated by Ythrians. The two realms were INTERPENETRATING and that would inevitably create problems if both species wanted the same kind of planets. One side or the other would have to yield and make concessions. And like it or not that will inevitably be the weaker power. And I saw nothing wrong with the Earl of Anatolia taking steps, including war, to rectify these problems. And diplomacy was attempted, with no success.
A real world example would be the wars fought by the British Raj in India with Afghanistan (the last one in the 1920's). For the usual reasons, the wild tribes in Afghanistan were raiding across the border, and the King was unable or unwilling to stop them. The invasions of Afghanistan by the Anglo/Indians were attempts to put a stop to this and secure the borders.
And I still disagree Donna Luisa and Saracoglu. Like it or not, he always behaved respectfully and courteously to her.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
But what were his intentions? He hoped that Luisa would realize that he had ejected two mistresses from his palace on her account.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Why should that bother you? It was his business if he was seriously thinking of things like marrying Donna Luisa. At least that was the I remember from reading the book.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
He is described as a notorious womanizer and I think that his purpose was seduction, not marriage.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Granted, but since it never got that far, we don't know how anything between Saracoglu and Donna Luisa would have ended or turned out.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Yes, but what was he trying to do? I will post more but, eventually, all we can both do is reread the relevant passages. If you do not get the impression, as I did, that Anderson intended Saracolglu to be oily and self-aggrandizing, then we will just have to leave it there.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
That is true, I did not get that impression of Saracoglu, nor I do think Anderson meant us to think he was oily and self-aggrandizing in any bad sense. One of those things we will have to agree to disagree abouut.
Ad astra! Sean
A politician is necessarily an actor. He puts his actions forward in a way designed to convince and impress; if he doesn't, he can't operate at all.
Scaragoglu was certainly trying to get Donna Luisa flat, but so what? He didn't try to coerce or intimidate her, did he? He certainly tried to make himself look good, but any male does that in those circumstances.
Someone said, "The most important thing in politics is sincerity. If you can fake that, you will do well!"
I am having to reassess my attitude to Scaracoglu because of the level of discussion here. I have no moral objection to sex between Scaracoglu and Luisa although he should take into account that it would be morally unacceptable in her social milieu and would therefore almost certainly result in regret and other repercussions for her.
But, more generally, I had thought that the smarminess, play-acting etc were his whole personality. Maybe they were only being deployed for the purpose of this one attempted seduction? Maybe there is more to this guy than I had thought?
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Mr. Stirling: Exactly! As so often, you made clearer to me my underlying thoughts. The Earl of Anatolia was a politician, among other things. And that necessarily includes playing a role--and one that Saracoglu knew he was playing. And that is not necessarily a bad thing!
Correct, what you said about Donna Luisa and Saracoglu. Also, I think he was so strongly attracted by her that the Earl was willing to even marry her, not just have a fling. I never saw anything like force or intimidation his treatment of Luisa.
Paul: In some ways Governor Saracoglu even reminded me of Nicholas van Rijn. Both womanizers, both shrewd, able men more than capable of playing roles. But I still don't see any attempted seduction on the Earl's part. Only that he made it plain to Donna Luisa that he was very interested in her.
Ad astra! Sean
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