"A rather lavish use of wood, on this plain where nature sowed hardly any, showed Josserek that the Northfolk must maintain a considerable traffic with the forest dwellers beyond their own lands. Big wagons and sledges, glimpsed through a shed door, suggested the means." (p. 100)
This passage tells the reader about the Northfolk and also that Josserek is good at his job which is intelligence-gathering. Although the Northfolk/Rogaviki live by hunting, they have houses, printing, book-binding, specialist factories, a postal service and international trade for timber, windmills and solar energy collectors. I think that after all we have to call them civilized. One of the items that they can exchange in trade is pre-Ice Age metal.
11 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
I strongly suspect the only reason the Rogaviki had advanced as far as they had done, despite being hard wired to bison hunting, was their control of an ample source of metal. That was the means they used to pay for things like imported lumber. If their control of that source of metal is taken from them, they will rapidly become less advanced. Esp. since they seem genetically UNABLE to change how they live.
But I still don't like the Rogaviki, they still strike me as being, when push comes to shove, as being callous and cruel.
Sean
Kaor, Paul!
Once, eons ago (smiles), you asked me to keep alert for the first clear mention of Descartes as I was starting to reread THE AVATAR. I have finally done so, in Chapter XXXII, page 272 of the Berkley/Putnam edition (1978), we see Joelle Ky thinking: "Eric made me wholly human for a short while--made me, wholly human--but then I went too far beyond him into a Reality too enthralling. I became Cartesian." And, in the same Chapter XXXII, on page 273 we see Joelle thinking: "I dare not admit Descartes (as a maker of symbols which have no more scientific meaning left in them than does the Last Judgment) was wrong."
If I recall correctly, Descartes was known for such aphorisms as "I think, therefore I am." So was Joelle's problem was that she became too wholly absorbed into pure Mind and Thought? Too CARTESIAN?
Sean
Correction, I was quoting from Chapter XXXIII of THE AVATAR in my previous comment, not Chapter XXXII. Darn and Drat!!!
Sean
Sean,
Thank you. The two references to Descartes were in the same chapter. I was looking much further back for the first one. I still find the second reference difficult.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I was puzzled by the second Descartes reference as well. I don't quite understand how, why, or in what way Joelle feared Descartes was somehow wrong.
Also, it would seem more logical to say "I am, therefore I think." How can we think at all unless we FIRST existed?
Sean
Sean,
"Cogito ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am") means "From the fact that I am conscious and thinking, it follows that my existence at least is not an illusion even if (possibly) the existence of everything else is."
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
That does make Descartes famous dictum more understandable and less odd looking. But I'm still not sure I could entirely agree with it. I still think simply existing has to be a pre-condition of being able to think at all. A newly born infant CERTAINLY exists but I seriously doubt such a young child can THINK.
Sean
Sean,
Yes, if you are to think, then you must first exist. Therefore, if you are thinking, then it follows that you do exist. But it does not follow that everything that exists thinks.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I agree, only existing creatures who are at least potentially able to think can or will think.
Sean
Kaor, Sean!
The Rogaviki can be callous, but so can our species. I think we discussed this a few years ago, and I pointed out that Josserek rightly observed that babymurder, whether in the form of abortion or post-birth infanticide, was common among non-Rogaviki humans. The Rogaviki aren’t notably charitable — we don’t see a Rogaviki version of Doctors Without Borders, donating meat and metal to the poor of Arvanneth — but they don’t conquer and steal, either, which is more than can be said of their neighbors. And does the Barommia-Rahidian Empire have a foreign aid program?
The Rogaviki are forgiving once an invader has been driven from their land, and they can be generous and hospitable on an individual basis. They have their violent side, and are ferociously determined to keep their lands, their herds, and their way of life, but if they weren’t, there wouldn’t be any of them around for you to criticize.
Best Regards,
Nicholas
Kaor, Nicholas!
Of course I agree with you in saying that ordinary humans are no better than the Rogaviki. No argument there.
I still question how long the Rogaviki could survive if they were genetically programmed to be bison hunting quasi-nomads on the plains of North America west of the Jugular River. THE WINTER OF THE WORLD makes it plain the Rogaviki are unable to live any other way, and unable to endure being long away from their homes. That kind of rigidity does not bode well for them if conditions drastically changes.
Also, bluntly, it is a historical fact that nomadic peoples are eventually conquered by urbanized, sedentary civilizations. Which is exactly what happened to our Indians in the 19th century. I question how long either the Rahidian Empire or possible new nations arising east of the Jugular could be held off by the Rogaviki. If necessary, sheer numbers and ruthless force will break them.
Also, if the Rogaviki were to be someday, somehow, rivals of ordinary humans for control of the Earth, I would frankly prefer our kind of hominids to win that struggle!
Best regards! Sean
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