Friday, 18 May 2018

Warped Reality

OK. Walked to Morecambe, ate a veg breaker with fried egg and hash browns (see The Food Thread) and visited Andrea (scroll down) above his brother's second-hand bookshop.

Andrea informed me that, in the current Marvel superheroes film, reality is somehow warped so that future films in this series will refer back to an altered history. Such reality alteration has become a standard superheroes gambit.

Something like this could have happened in Poul Anderson's Time Patrol series. Imagine:

a novel set in future centuries;

villains who change the course of history so that it no longer leads to the Danellians;

Time Patrol agents who restore a course of events that leads to the Danellians but that also has major differences from what they remember, e.g., one of the agents is now in a timeline where some historical events are different and where his own birth and previous life did not happen.

Maybe only he remembers or maybe others realize that there are some differences but also judge that they do not matter. Careful writing would be necessary to keep the plot consistent within the level of discontinuity that is allowed by the variable reality concept. But we get the impression that the history protected by the Patrol is already patched together at various crucial points in any case. Was there an "original" timeline in which Veleda was raped and killed and never became an avenging prophetess capable of disrupting the timeline further? And what was the original history of Cyrus the Great? Etc.

12 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I think you have argued in this blog that if the timeline leading to the Danellians was somehow "interrupted" and then restored by Patrol agents, the undesired timeline was not snuffed out, but did become inaccessible to anyone from the Patrol's world line.

And I trust your friend Andrea is doing better! And does his brother sells any books by Poul Anderson and S.M. Stirling?

Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,
Andrea is still in undiagnosed poor health, unfortunately.
Aroni sells a lot of 2nd hand books. I have found little by PA and nothing that I did not already have. I must check on SMS.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Oh, dear! I had hoped Andrea was better!

I have found some Anderson books at or thru second hand book stories. A favorite being a copy of the 1965 Chilton Books edition of AGENT OF THE TERRAN EMPIRE. And I did wonder if you could find Stirling's second and third Shadowspawn books at Aroni's book shop.

Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Will try.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Good luck!

Sean

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Sean M. Brooks said...

Dear Mr. Mohamed,

It's interesting to find a comment here from Dubai. Does that mean you too have read some of Poul Anderson's stories? If so, did you have any thoughts or ideas about them?

Sincerely, Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Jamal,
I am not sure whether you like the warped reality or the vegetarian breakfast but thank you for your comment!
Paul.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

If someone has spray painted offensive graffiti on a wall and you erase the graffiti, then you have prevented the graffiti from existing in the present but you have not changed the fact that it did exist in the past.

If you have prevented Hitler's birth in the current timeline, then you have prevented Hitler from existing in the current timeline but you have not changed the fact that he did exist in a previous timeline. To the people living in, e.g., 2018 of the previous timeline, Hitler remains part of their history even though most of the people in the current timeline have no knowledge of the existence of that previous timeline. It (timeline 1) exists/existed (a new tense is needed) not in the past of the current timeline (timeline 2) but in the past of a second temporal dimension at right angles to the first.

Thus, the proposition that the events of timeline 1 have never occurred is perfectly true from the point of view of an observer who is aware only of the existence of timeline 2 (which he would not call timeline 2).

Paul.

S.M. Stirling said...

Best wishes for Andrea, by the way.

S.M. Stirling said...

I think Poul's position was that an "un-made" timeline existed only in the memories of those who had experienced it.

This is a rather complex concept...

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!

Paul: your comments about the timelines were what I had in mind. Your arguments about these timelines have convinced me.

Mr. Stirling: "complex concept" is far too mild a phrase for this kind of abstruse discussion! Yes, Poul Anderson's original concept was that the Carthaginian timeline "deleted" in "Delenda Est" would thereafter exist only in the memories of those who had experienced it. But, Paul wrote that in letters written to PA that he had convinced the author that "deleted" timelines were not snuffed out but became inaccessible to persons from the Danellian timeline.

Unfortunately, Anderson died before he might have written another Time Patrol story incorporating Paul's suggestions.

Sean