Death is an issue in religion, philosophy and detective fiction.
Thoas to Ankhsenamen:
"'...you Egyptians think too much about the next life. You should cling to this one and enjoy it as best you can and forget about the rest.'" (pp. 133-134)
Enjoy, yes. Forget? Explore everything beyond our lives including any alleged evidence for survival. Genuine objective research into the paranormal is almost impossible in the present climate! The Society for Psychical Research did a good job on the deceased CS Lewis' appearance to JB Phillips. (Mrs Phillips confirmed that her husband spoke as if conversing with someone but also that she herself neither saw nor heard Lewis.)
One of the worst features of religion is Christians gloating at the supposed fates of unbelievers and even of heretics in the hereafter. Milton did it in Paradise Lost. An American Evangelical told me online that she would love to see my face on the Day of Judgement... Right. Let's all keep trying to find the truth for ourselves. If the ultimate reality is after all a person, then He or She will sort everything out.
12 comments:
Life is a material object; death is oblivion.
I think that life is a process rather than an object.
Death is matter reverting from an organic to an inorganic state. A heart stops pumping, blood stops circulating, neurons stop firing and interacting. Everything stays where it is but changes form. Nothing goes anywhere, not even into oblivion.
Your -consciousness- dies -- oblivion. It's dependent on the living organism of the human body.
"Oblivion" is correct for the cessation or absence of consciousness but it really has to mean that. Death is sometimes described as "darkness," "blank emptiness" etc. Darkness and emptiness are states that we can experience, i.e., of which we can be conscious. Absence of consciousness, of course, is a state of which we cannot be conscious. Obvious but I am just trying to make sure that language reflects that.
Kaor, to Both!
And I don't believe there is an eternal unawareness or black nothingness at death. Also, events have been recorded by unimpeachable witnesses at shrines like Lourdes and other miracles investigated by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints which makes sense only if they were of supernatural origin.
Paul: I agree that evangelical Protestant was extremely cruel. The correct and Catholic attitude was expressed by that bishop preaching to the Danes of King Harald Blue-tooth's time in MOTHER OF KINGS. The Church would not judge the eternal fate of the Danes' pagan ancestors. Rather, they would be left to the mercy of God.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Well, we have been through Lourdes before! How many Catholic apologists and philosophers use Lourdes as a main plank in their argumentation?
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
None that I know of, and that was not my point. The point being that I think one reason for what God does at Lourdes is for that to be a challenge to think nothing matters or exist except except the motions of blind chance and matter. A challenge to those who regard with horror (or hostility) the supernatural claims of Judaism/Christianity and worse of all the Catholic Church.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Philosophical materialists do not think that nothing exists or matters except the motions of blind chance and matter. We believe that being (whatever it is that most fundamentally exists) is dynamic. It is describable as "energy." Mass is energy. Matter does not consist only of mechanically interacting particles with only the quantifiable properties of mass and volume. If that was all that existed, then there would be no qualitative differences anywhere and being would not have become conscious of itself through increasingly complex and sensitive psychophysical organisms. The emergence of consciousness was an irreducible qualitative transformation, involving others. Thus, electromagnetic wavelengths differ quantitatively but we are immediately conscious of them as colours differing qualitatively.
Chance seems to play a major role in events but that involves statistics, therefore a combination of continual novelty and some predictability. "Blind chance" means that events are not purposive/teleological. How could they be before consciousness? But, now that intelligent beings exist, we can certainly bring about intended events.
So you denigrate your philosophical opponents as:
thinking that nothing exists or matters except random material motions;
regarding supernatural claims with horror or hostility;
particularly hostile to Catholicism?
Find me some of these people and I will disagree with them.
Prime facie, "the universe" and "nature" are two phrases for the total reality of which we are the conscious part. In this sense, everything around us is "natural" and you have to demonstrate that the term, "supernatural," has some referent. I am not denying this, just saying that you have to establish it.
Since reality is infinite whereas our knowledge of it is finite, there will always be phenomena that we have not understood or explained yet. This includes "miraculous" and paranormal events in all religious traditions. Check out yogis that don't eat. (I don't know whether this is true but it is claimed and requires investigation.)
You come across as embattled, embittered and hostile. We need to discuss these important issues without all that emotional baggage.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
As for the kind of philosophy you mentioned, you would do better to discuss that with John Wright, who as both a lawyer and philosopher, is far better qualified to discuss such matters than I am. And I do think some do think nothing exists except chance and random material motions.
I was being gentle saying some who are opposed to belief in God are horrified. Many of them struck me as being hostile, even violently so.
Seriously? Are you really unaware of the fierce hostility Catholic Christianity has faced since the days of the Apostles? Almost every century has seen tyrants laboring to oppress, persecute, dominate, or destroy the Church. To say nothing of the rampant, ignorant Jack Chick style of anti-Catholicism I have seen in the US itself. The mere existence of the Church makes many feel threatened. Because the revelation of Christ Incarnate, Crucified, and Risen from the dead is a challenge to all of us.
I disagree with what you said about "phenomena." I don't believe "phenomena" like a woman dying of ALS being instantaneously cured when placed in the waters at Lourdes can ever be achieved "naturally." The argument you offered looks more like a refusal to consider alternatives.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Of course SOME think that nothing exists except chance and random material motions. Whatever it is possible to believe, someone will!
Many who believe in God are horrified at dissent, hostile, even violent. This is beside the point when discussing philosophy.
Am I unaware of hostility to Christianity? What has that got to do with it? We are discussing philosophy. Those who think differently from you do so because they feel threatened? Can't we just discuss the issues instead of attributing discreditable motives to others?
I agree with what I said about "phenomena." An instantaneous cure has occurred. This is evidence that such events CAN happen. I am considering alternative explanations, not refusing to consider them. Instead of discussion, this is accusation!
Since I have philosophical disagreements with monotheism and historical disagreements with Christianity, I cannot just explain miraculous cures in that context but I remain open to further discussion.
Can't we just DISCUSS?
Paul.
Many people tacitly assume that the way they see the world is the way everyone sees it. Thus, are unbelievers "challenged" by the Incarnation of Christ? No, they cannot be challenged by the Incarnation because they see no reason to believe in it. That is why they are unbelievers in the first place!
We have to start a discussion on a level playing field of recognizing differences. Otherwise, we just flounder indefinitely. (Which is what happens.)
Of course, if you maintain that those who disagree with you on this matter are being dishonest, then discussion becomes impossible.
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