First, characters can travel from one time to another and that does happen once both in SM Stirling's To Turn the Tide and in its sequel, The Winds Of Fate: Americans from 2032 to 165 in the first book; then Chinese from 2032 to 165 in the second.
Secondly, characters from one time can spend a lot of time in another time. That is mainly what happens in both books.
Except of course that both sets of characters, the Americans and the Chinese, are, from the moment of their arrival, in a divergent timeline, therefore not in the past of their original timeline, therefore, in my opinion, not really in a different time. However, the object of the exercise is to find out what kinds of changes they can make and that is fascinating. Stirling is thorough about technological, economic and social changes. The Americans are helped both by good preparation and by good luck. (Favoured by Fortuna.)
When the two groups learn of each other's presence, they should be able to pool their resources and change the world even more quickly than they have been doing already. Except that the Chinese plan was that China would expand across the world, preventing the nuclear war from which they had fled by making the world a single state. And the Chinese leader, Colonel Liu, regards the Americans as an obstacle! In other words, he will reintroduce the kind of conflict that had led to nuclear war in the original timeline.
Can he be so short-sighted? Yes, with his upbringing and culture, he can. This is not an inevitable, but it is an all too plausible, outcome. What will happen next? We are in the hands of the author and of the gods.
10 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
Neither Artorius nor Col. Liu was being shortsighted, IMO. The former wanted Rome to eventually unify the world, while the latter wanted China to do that unifying. They could not pool their resources because they had opposing goals of who should rule. Conflict was inevitable. And I believe Artorius and the Roman Empire he was changing would be the better choice.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I think so too.
A more sensible Chinese leader would have realized the need to promote civilization as such and to at least try to negotiate about the details of how this would be ruled in different places. Going straight into cold war mode having just escaped from a World War is a very tunnel vision approach!
Paul.
Artorius would have been ready to listen to that approach. OTOH, Colonel Liu is a secret police officer, and a fanatical nationalist, so...
Artorius is a nationalist too, though not a fanatical one. But his nation doesn't -exist- in the 2nd century CE. Neither does Liu's, but he's in denial about that.
Whenever we go, we will take our psychologies and politics with us.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Paul: Col. Liu would have to be a very different man from what we see him as being for any chance of that happening. Either a Confucian of the best kind that was seen during the Ch'ing Dynasty or a Chinese Christian. And neither was likely in a totalitarian regime like Maoist China.
Mr. Stirling: I agree, Artorius was not a fanatical nationalist. Devoted to first the US and then the Empire, but not fanatical about it.
I'm a bit surprised Liu is in denial about what happened to China. Surely, he knows the China he came from was utterly destroyed?
Ad astra! Sean
Sean: Yeah, he does know, but he regards China as "one" throughout the ages. So he's saving China, so to speak, from his own p.o.v. Note that he makes some of the same changes, and some different ones.
Of course, the Chinese have the disadvantage that their Emperor is a self-centered idiot.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
I think I understand what Liu was trying to do and hoped to achieve. But that "one China" he wanted was an impossibility, not only because Han Chinese were simply not the same as 21st Century Chinese, but also because the innovations he was introducing would inevitably produce a China different from either the Han era or Maoist China.
And Liu knew Emperor Ling was nothing like Marcus Aurelius in ability. But he believed that would be tolerable as long as the innovations he introduced continued to spread. China would become so wealthy and powerful the Central Kingdom would conquer the world. Resistance would be futile!
Until he found about how Artorius was helping to transform the Roman Empire.
Ad astra! Sean
Daiyu knows that Han China isn't the China she grew up in -- it's less obvious to her male counterparts, because they can live out fantasies of being Very Important People.
OTOH, their position is precarious -- because Liu keeps all the political power in his own hands, and his hold over the Chinese Emperor depends on -him-.
If Artorius/Arthur were to die, Marcus Aurelius would maintain the Americans in pretty much the same position.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
It's rather a pity we don't see much about the Chinese time travelers, except for Black Jade and Liu. You did mention how the other three married Han Chinese wives and started having children. That, coming from a China with too few women, is a huge change!
A bad mistake by Liu, monopolizing power like that, if his only source of support was Emperor Ling. Liu could easily fall if the Emperor either died or simply got bored with hm. Just recall what happened to Lord Shang, in the state of Chin, after his king died--destroyed by powerful enemies. Liu should have built up a faction of friends and supporters.
Yes, it's very likely Marcus Aurelius would keep Artorius' ex-grad students in they had gained if Artorius died. None of them could really take his place as an Imperial adviser, but they would still be very useful.
Ad astra! Sean
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