How much of Poul Anderson's Technic History is fiction within the fiction? Quite a lot. Look through the contents of The Earth Book Of Stormgate plus "The Star Plunderer" and, of course, "Sargasso of Lost Starships." (The latter features some almost supernatural beings but demonic rather than angelic.)
This means that two kinds of additions to the Technic History are possible:
new instalments fitted between existing instalments;
rewrites, recounting what "really happened" when van Rijn was stranded on Diomedes, when Manuel Argos led a slave revolt and founded the Terran Empire etc.
Someone might even write The Sky Book Of Stormgate.
The Technic History is long but implies a literally endless narrative.
10 comments:
It's a contradiction with the history of the Roman empire. Rome went from strength to strength against outsiders -- it was the civil wars of the generals trying to seize power that racked Italy.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Paul: Except the existence of the angels as real beings is taught as a matter of divine revelation in both the Scriptures and authoritative teachings of the Church (e.g., Lateran Council IV).
One thing that has puzzled me is how even some who say they believe in God also deny the angels are real. That does not make sense--if you believe in God then you also have to believe He has the power to create non-corporeal beings.
Mr. Stirling: I mostly agree, with me thinking of the civil wars of the Late Republic and then the even more disastrous civil wars of the Third Century Crisis of the Empire. But in your two pub. Antonine books you repeatedly stressed that the Marcomannic War, while not a civil war, was a first-class disaster for the Empire, with the barbarians ravaging the Pannonian provinces and parts if NE Italy in our history. Marcus Aurelius had to fight very hard before he was able to drive out the savages.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
If you believe in God, then you do not have to believe that He exercises His power to create non-corporeal beings.
Scriptural passages are of very different types. Some are historical fiction. There are also myths, poetry etc. Are there any that state as a theological doctrine or a philosophical proposition that angels are real?
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I disagree what you are proposing amounts to limiting what God can do. God, to be God, can create angels if He so wishes. And did.
Of course, the Scriptures contains many different genres--no sensible Catholic denies that or should. They contain law codes, history, philosophical reflections, theological fictions, poetry, etc. What the Church teaches is that revelation was imparted to us by these Scriptures in different ways. And that it took time, sometimes hastened/sharpened by doctrinal controversies, before the Church used its authority for "strengthening the brethren" to define what that revelation was on this or that point.
If people don't want to believe angels are real, that's their choice.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
We seem to get stuck on basic logical points. If I say that a God who can create angels need not do so, I do not mean that he cannot do so.
The different genres include genres in which the appearance of an angel at an event is a way of saying that the event was important.
Again, we do do not choose what to believe. We consider evidence.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Of course, God did not HAVE to create the angels, except He did. I was thinking of people who denied angels were created, despite saying they believe in God.
Of course, God sometimes sent angels acting as His messengers, as with the seraphim Isaiah was granted a vision of in Isaiah 6 or the angel who appeared to the BVM.
Choice or assent also plays a part in what we believe.
Ad astra! Seam
Sean,
It is logically consistent to believe that God exists and that He can create angels yet has not done so!
Choice should have no part in belief.
Isaiah saw a vision. Jesus' birth stories are legendary and are not true. Kung acknowledged this.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
And I continue to affirm God did create non-corporeal beings, because that is part of the deposit of faith revealed to the Church thru Scripture and tradition.
Choice/assent is a necessary factor leading to what we believe when it comes to the most ultimate questions.
Isaiah was granted a vision of the Lord in glory, attended by the seraphim.
Disagree, what you said about the Infancy narratives. Nor do I care about Herr Kung.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
And I continue to see this as a pointless discussion but to deny that there is a logical error in the views of other theists that you criticized.
Choice is not a factor in belief.
A vision is not a reality.
Disagree about the Infancy narratives. They have no historical basis, they are typical made up "birth of a great man" stories like many others and they are mutually contradictory. Theologians including Kung disagree with you.
Come on! We could all say that we "don't care" about knowledgeable people who see things differently from us. That is hardly the way either to discuss or to learn anything.
I am genuinely learning from Maurice's book which again I highly recommend.
Paul.
Kaor. Paul!
Deadlock and impasse, we will have to agree to end this discussion.
Ad astra! Sean
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