Recently I tried rereading some sf from years ago but did not read it to the end. I realize now that what I wanted then was stories about people in spaceships, not stories that were about something and that also happened to feature people in spaceships. Poul Anderson's first few Dominic Flandry stories are space opera but his later Flandry novels are about historical processes and alien evolution. The Merseians are transformed from cliched villains into a plausible species. The Technic History incorporates the lengthy Flandry series and, as we know, another entire series with additional stories set before, between and after, thus making it, in my opinion, the most complete future history series.
The film, The Odyssey, expresses concern about the decline of civilization, an issue that was not present in the Homeric epic but that is relevant now and was expressed by Poul Anderson.
21 comments:
The thing about Homer is that he was composing his poems just before Greece became civilized again. He reflects the moral universe of tribalism.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
And that's exactly what the authors of the great classics should do, reflecting their own ideas and beliefs in their works, reflecting the ideas/beliefs of their societies. They are under no obligation to pander to the whims, foibles, and fads of future generations.
Ad astra! Sean
They don't know about future generations!
Sean & Paul: you're both right...
I should note that attempts to predict the future usually end up looking ridiculous.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Both: Of course! I was being droll about those "future generations."
Mr. Stirling: Unless writers are content to simply offer these speculations as stories set in alternate histories, as both you and Anderson have done.
Ad astra! Sean
Yeah, predicting the future is impossible. History is a series of low-probability accidents bouncing off each other.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
I agree it's impossible to predict the future. I also believe it's reasonable to assume tend to handle problems/crises in broadly familiar ways.
That catastrophe in the Spanish city of Ceuta is going to end in virtually predictable political consequences.
Ad astra! Sean
Correction: "...to assume humans tend to handle..."
Sean
Sean: Yeah, Italy has suspended free movement with Spain.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
Good! The Italian PM seems to be one of the few European "leaders" with her head screwed on right.
I'm so furious with the socialist gov't of Spain! The chaos in Ceuta reminds me too well of the similar chaos at the US southern border in "Josip's" time. I've already seen reports about the Moroccan invaders robbing and expelling Ceutans from their homes. And a feeble and feckless leftist gov't does nothing about defending Spaniards and Spanish sovereignty. Only the decisive use of force will expel those 60,000 invaders.
Ad astra! Sean
Only a better world will make it unnecessary for large numbers of refugees to "invade" another country.
Kaor, Paul!
Weakness, cowardice, and feebleness will not bring about that "better world."
Denied, those Moroccans were not "refugees." SIXTY THOUSAND young men of prime military age swarming into Ceuta in one day is an invasion. In fact, I suspect the Moroccan gov't planned this as a means of grabbing the city. They should be expelled.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I fully agree with that first sentence and do not see its relevance. A lot of strength and courage are necessary to bring about a better world.
Denied. I am talking about refugees in general, not just about this incident. The general issue is the insistence by some that all refugees should be kept out. The problems that cause people to become refugees have to be addressed and resolved. Just building walls and expelling people (ICE) merely perpetuates all the problems. We will indeed continue to tear the world apart if enough people want us to!
Paul.
Sean,
"Denied." Do you really like expressing disagreements in these terms? I loathe it.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
We need men with the courage to forthrightly defend, advocate, and implement ideas that WORKS. And that means the limited state, in whatever form; and free enterprise economics.
Refused, particular incidents do matter. Weakness, stupidity, and cowardice is what brings on invasions like those of "Josip's" time and at Ceuta. Foreigners have no right to shove their way into peoples' countries. The stubbornness of people who think as you do is a big reason why we have mass protests and upheavals from people who oppose this madness.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Ideas that WORKS! The economic competition that you call free enterprise is destroying the environment and causing wars for resources now. It is not working for people. The original free enterprise has taken us far beyond itself into larger and larger companies, monopolies and state interventions.
Economic competition will be redundant when technologically produced abundant wealth is democratically controlled and distributed. Why do we keep going around in this circle? Something is very wrong here, surely?
Refused. Of course particular incidents matter! It is not weakness, stupidity or cowardice that causes migration when large numbers of people flee from wars, poverty or famine. Foreigners have every right to "shove their way into peoples' countries" if that means fleeing persecution, seeking employment and a better life. The stubbornness of people who think as you do maintains the deplorable status quo. (BTW, I am not being "stubborn." I am disagreeing with you. Can we at least get that sorted out?) Those "mass protests and upheavals from people who oppose this [it is not madness]" are being opposed by even larger mass demonstrations of unity, togetherness and antiracism. And this will continue.
Now, can we either leave the subject or continue to discuss it without any purely emotive terms like "stubbornness" and "madness." (I use them only to reply in kind, not because I want the discussion to remain at this level. Good heavens, no.)
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Deadlock and impasse. Best to terminate this discussion.
Ad astra! Sean
And best not to start it again except on a completely different basis.
Paul: In Ceuta I'd have just told the troops to open fire and shoot to kill. After all, they're dealing with invaders, just as if they came in a tank shooting.
Local people organized food and shelter.
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