"'You are challenged. Before my gods, your gods, the memory of all our forebears and the hope of all our descent, I, Draun of Highsky, put you, Christopher Holm, called Arinnian of Stormgate, upon your deathpride to meet me in combat from which no more than one shall go alive. In the presence and honor of these witnesses whom I name -...'" (p. 617)
I would not enter into any social contract that allowed for the issuing of such a challenge but at the same time I would want to find a social solution to problems like Draun. An English visitor to Narnia is alarmed when he learns that, in that world, a challenge to a duel has to be taken quite seriously!
"...my gods, your gods..." is the type of formula by which a polytheist acknowledges, instead of denying, alternative pantheons. I was appalled at the ineptitude of a Wiccan handfast that I attended. The bride was Christian so the celebrant, appropriately, included "the Lord Jesus" among the deities invoked but did not take the trouble to explain this in advance so the result was a lot of people puzzled as to why Jesus was making a surprise visit to a Pagan rite. The bewildered even included a Level 3 Wiccan (High Priest) who surely should have understood what was going on without needing me to explain it to him.
A Buddhist friend and I agreed to sit for meditation for half an hour in a village church but, after a quarter of an hour, the verger had to quietly inform us that he was closing the church now. It was as if the god of that place had given us half the time that we had asked for - and we received it with gratitude.
14 comments:
Pagans generally accepted that other gods existed, but there was also the "interpretatio Romana" -- the Romans just assumed that other people's Gods were theirs with different names.
So they'd say that the primary German God was "Mercury". They were talking about Wodan, but the thing that struck them about Wodan's functions was that he was the "psychopomp", the one who guided the spirits of the dead to the afterlife.
Mercury did that, so "Wodan = Mercury".
The Greeks also did this, but not as consistently. Eg., they'd say the West Semitic god "Melquart" was actually Hercules.
Wiccans actually do this too -- they cheerfully use divine names from various pantheons to describe the "aspect" of the Lord and Lady they're focusing on.
Kaor, Paul!
And ever since the Council of Trent the Catholic Church has condemned dueling and forbidden her children from taking part in any way in duels, under pain of automatic excommunication. And any Catholic who took part in a duel and died in it was to be refused funerary rites and burial in a Catholic cemetery.
Any convinced Catholics on Avalon would have to refuse challenges to deathpride duels.
Your experience with that gentlemanly verger reminded me of what I experienced once in St. Peter's Basilica. The shrine of St. Peter, under the high altar, is a favorite spot of prayer for the Romans. One night as the Basilica was closing, the ushers politely and gently shooed us out. I happened to noticed the janitorial staff waiting nearby, so they could begin the daily clean up.
Ad astra! Sean
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
I'm a bit puzzled, I thought pagan Romans would have equated Jupiter with Wodan, the chief god of the Germanics.
And I think the Semitic Melqart was a fiercer and grimmer god than Hercules.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
You would think Jupiter = Wodan. However, because Jupiter and Thor both wield the thunderbolt, Jupiter = Thor. (Thursday is Jeudi in French.) Because Mercury and Wodan both lead the dead, Mercury = Wodan. (Wednesday is Mercredi in French.) The Wodan/Mercury identification is cited in "The Sorrow of Odin the Goth."
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I know, and I should have thought of that, odd tho it seemed to equate Mercury with Wodan.
Compared to "those children on Olympus" the Germanic and Semitic pagan gods were far grimmer than the Greco/Roman gods.
Ad astra! Sean
The -actual- equivalent of Jupiter is Tiwaz (later Tyr).
They're both reflexes of the Proto-Indo-European chief deity, "Sky Father". Dieu Pater... Jupiter. Zeus Pater... Zeus. And Tiwaz Fadar... Tiwaz... Tyr.
(In proto-Germanic, initia; "p" ==> F, and initial "d" ==> T. Diwaz Pater ==> Tiwaz Fader.)
But the Romans were making snap judgments based on the God's -characteristics-, and doing so through interpreters whose Latin was probably bad.
Note that both Tiwaz and Wodan were Gods of war, but in different ways.
Tiwaz (like Sky Father) was God of war from a king's perspective -- of collective action and strategy.
Wodan was god of battle-frenzy, of berserkers; war from a warrior's perspective. And He sent His daughters to bring the spirits of the slain to Valhalla.
(The root word for "Wodan" is probably the same as became "Hercules" in Greek; both have connotations of frenzy, of fury.)
The Greeks also had two deities of war; Ares and Athena. Ares is often cited as the war-god, but more precisely He was the God of bloodshed, of battle-fury, of the battle as opposed to the war of which the battle was a part.
Athena, always shown armed, was the "Defender of the City" -- of collective, defensive war, of stratagem and battles won by thought and cunning.
Ares was Achilles' patron; Odysseus was a worshipper of Athena.
And as the Greek saying went, "It wasn't Achilles who took Troy".
Achilles traded length of days for glory, and got it; but Odysseus hadn't wanted to go to Troy in the first place, used his head to win the war, and then managed to get back to all he'd ever wanted, his home and family.
Achilles was nothing -but- a warrior. Odysseus was a fighter and a good one; but he could also sail a ship, make a bed with his own hands, plow a field, figure out a riddle and think on his feet, and judge a law-case.
Tuesday, for Tiwaz, is Mardi in French and De Mairt in Irish. (Marsday)
Paul: that was a later and more accurate -interpretatio-, identifying Wodan with Mars.
Incidentally, you can tell from the way Tuesday is pronounced that the word was still "Tiwaz" when it was used for the day of the week.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
All this was very interesting indeed. Esp. the philological analysis of how the Roman, Greek, and Germanic gods could be traced back, using linguistics, to proto-Indo-European roots. It reminds me of JRR Tolkien's own work in philology. I think he would have agreed with your comments here.
So Tuesday, "Tuusday," used to be "Tuuwaz" (Tiwaz)?
Ad astra! Sean
Sean: more like a long slightly guttural "i". At that stage, the ancestor of English was spoken 'further back in the mouth'. Try pronouncing the 'i' with the tip of your tongue pressed against your bottom teeth and the "Ti" coming from further back.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
I actually did that, and it felt and sounded weird and unnatural to me! But I know that's simply because I did not grow up speaking like that.
Ad astra! Sean
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