See:
Possible Solutions, Part II
Spying II
Firmage suggests subversion of Borthu through double agents traveling on regular freighters. Subversion, unlike spying, would not require impossible blending in. However, the isolationist Kossaluth would not allow regular freighters. Van Rijn replies that subversion will be tried, if possible, but also that it takes time:
"'We need a quick way to get back our routes through that space.'" (p. 151)
An urgent problem needs a quick response. There is a current scientific prediction of irreversible climate catastrophe in twelve years. What quick reponse is possible?
8 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
Even if we do face a severe environmental crisis within twelve years, we have to be realistic: quick action, even if it's of the kind I believe would be best, will not happen. There is no unity in the world, we do not have a world gov't, for one thing. Nor do I expect ambitious contending to give up competing for more power. All that can be hoped for is that SOME nations will finally get SERIOUS about nuclear energy and a real space program. And, as of now, as regards the latter, I put more hope in private companies such as SpaceX.
Sean
Sean,
It looks as if "finally" will be too late. Hundreds of people have been arrested demonstrating in London. Maybe some European governments can be persuaded to prioritize the environment instead of Brexit. Meanwhile, the US President denies climate change.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
And the UK should leave the failed, bloatedly bureaucratic, oppressively meddlesome EU!
And nothing, of course, will be done about the very worst polluters, such as China and India. And I still advocate getting serious about nuclear energy and a real space program. A colony being founded on Mars would at least mean no longer keeping all our eggs in the only basket we have, Earth.
So more power to Elon Musk!
Sean
@Sean: "There is on Planet B." We have to get it right here, or at least go down fighting....
Re: Brexit:
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2019/03/the-inevitable-brexit-thread-1.html
https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2019/04/the-inevitable-brexit-thread-2.html
-kh
@Sean: CORRECTION: "There is no Planet B." We have to get it right here, or at least go down fighting....
Re: Brexit:
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2019/03/the-inevitable-brexit-thread-1.html
https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2019/04/the-inevitable-brexit-thread-2.html
-kh
Kaor, Keith!
Of course we need to get a grip on at least some of our worst problems on Earth. But I still advocate getting out into space, both to start making use of the resources there (think plentiful solar energy, just for starters) and founding colonies elsewhere, despite the difficulties.
I will try to find the website you cited, but it's time I went to bed.
Sean
Thank you, Sean. I still want to go to space, I just don't think ETR (Extra-Terresrial resources) will be the short-term incentive: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/macguffinite.php
One person here says (about a quarter of the way down)"
"The pressure problems {of living on the sea-floor} are significant, but one of the main reasons I'd hazard that people don't live regularly at depth is the lack of motivation. Why would you live on the seafloor?
Living space? Turns out humans don't mind being tightly packed so while we could live tightly packed under the water, we can do so on coasts instead (and more easily resource wise given oxygen needs etc) and commute.
Farming? No need anything we want to farm can typically be done so from the bottom with the odd trip down if and when its necessary (thus remain on the shore and commute or at the surface and commute).
Mining? Possible but no need yet as terrestrial resources are still available. Nodules have attracted attention, but there's not enough demand or consistency yet to bother given continental resources.
Oil and gas? Add the extra 200m of pipeline to the surface is a simpler solution.
Unlike going to space there isn't a large enough cost (at least yet) to going up and down with the frequency needed to get what we want. So we lack the incentive.
Its pretty apparent that whether talking of Antarctica, the seafloor or space the incentive structure not just the means have to be there. We don't have the incentive for any of them as yet. At a guess (and it is a guess that is only partially educated) I'd say in the next 20-50 years we'll start to see the incentive for going to Antarctica, on the scale of 50-100 we'll see the seafloor open up (but probably still see commuting rather than habitation). How long it takes us to get enough incentive to use a space-based resource is a tougher call. Depends on how fast we chew up existing terrestrial resources, what new demands will arise with changes in technology, and the realised cost of getting into orbit and staying in space vs digging deeper into the crust.
The fiction lover in mes likes the idea of colonies on other planets or orbital mining facilities etc, the realist is more apt to agree that if people are living off Earth anytime in my lifetime it will be in the purely "scientific" curosity (sic) outpost mode or tourism venture that we currently see as standard on Antarctica and the seafloor (where there are a cople (sic) of purely scientific undersea domes, one of which they used to teach astronauts at, not sure if they still do)."
Dr. Beth Fulton
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http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/2010/11/first-stage.html
http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/2010/11/searching-for-mcguffinite.html
Rick Robinson (very pleasant fellow) says:
"... In the early interplanetary era - and, in all likelihood, for a long time after - there may be hundreds of people in space, but probably not thousands and certainly not millions. There will be a space economy, but no economy in space: the ships will be transports, not liners, and certainly not tramp freighters. (Sob!)"
-kh
Kaor, Keith!
Trying to find any comments I might have missed.
Of course I agree, as regards space, that TECHNOLOGY will have to make the MOTIVES for leaving Earth realistic and practical. So I agree that far with Dr. Fulton and Mr. Robinson. And I also agree any "leaving" of Earth will have to start on a small scale. But let's at least START doing that!
Sean
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