Tuesday 17 May 2022

More Cans Of Worms II

"Star of the Sea," 6.

"...we have no evidence of anybody trying to monkey with events." (p. 521)

The irony is that it is Everard's and Floris's investigation of past events that "monkeys with" them:

"'...what we've found is the irony that our investigation of a disturbance to the plenum is what brought it about. To be quite frank, that sort of nexus is by no means unprecedented.'" (15, p. 599)

But the nature of the disturbance is not what we expect from reading previous Time Patrol episodes. Sociologists studying Rome in the early second century find an altered text of Tacitus' Histories, Tacitus Two. That should mean that the sociologists are in the Tacitus Two timeline. But when they report uptime it is to the Tacitus One timeline. If they are still in the Tacitus One timeline, then how have they acquired a Tacitus Two manuscript? I can try to explain this but the attempted explanation cannot fit into the successive timelines theory.

An Attempted Explanation
The sociologists are studying Rome at a time when the events described in Tacitus One and the alternative sequence of events described in Tacitus Two are equally probable. To extract a copy of the Histories from a library, they had to travel a short distance into the future when the library would be empty. This short journey took them forward into the Tacitus Two timeline. Returning to their base in the early second century took them back to before the turning point between Tacitus One and Tacitus Two. Travelling futureward again returned them to the future of their familiar Tacitus One timeline. But Patrol action is necessary before the turning point to ensure, as far as possible, that all other time travellers returning from the further past stay with Tacitus One. 

14 comments:

S.M. Stirling said...

Or the investigators experienced the Tacitus Two timeline, then went back to report -- pastward of the nexus point.

Their report then caused the investigation which caused the divergence, but the investigators then took counter-action which "undid" their own disturbance, by intervention at a later date.

But note that the "original" sequence of events -- in which the traders from Roman Gaul killed/abducted two young Germanics in the Baltic -- is not restored.

What they do is damp down the effects of Velada's continued existence, whereas in the "original" timeline, there was no Velada or the person of that name was someone completely different.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

My God! The earliest version of this timeline, without any extratemporal intervention, would have been one in which Veleda was raped and killed and never became a prophetess.

Jim Baerg said...

I guess that however entertaining time travel stories might be, there doesn't seem to be a way to make them logically consistent.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Jim,

Yes, there is. Robert Heinlein's "By His Bootstraps" "All You Zombies" and THE DOOR INTO SUMMER. Poul Anderson's THE CORRIDORS OF TIME, THERE WILL BE TIME and THE DANCER FROM ATLANTIS. Harry Harrison's THE TECHNICOLOR TIME MACHINE. Tim Powers' THE ANUBIS GATES. Audrey Niffenegger's THE TIME TRAVELLER'S WIFE and hopefully the sequel she is writing.

All of these works describe circular causality in a single timeline with no causality violation ("changing the past").

Paul.

Jim Baerg said...

OK maybe you are right. Here is another one ;)
https://explosm.net/comics/new-years-2022#comic

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I actually used to "know" Tim Powers somewhat, from sometimes talking to him in the old AOL Catholic chat room. A very nice man, and quite patient with my fanboy geek questions about SF and the science fiction writers Powers had known, including Poul Anderson!

Ad astra! Sean

S.M. Stirling said...

My intuition is that if time travel is possible at all, then time is mutable. It would require some sort of "conscious" mechanism to prevent history changing -- divine intervention, if you will.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Mr. Stirling!

The idea of mutable timelines being REAL is alarming!

Ad astra! Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

We won't notice or be affected if our timeline ceases to exist from someone else's point of view. The cessation does not occur at any moment in our timeline.

Paul.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Kaor, Paul! I keep forgetting that. The use of "deletion" in the Time Patrol stories makes me think more of it being a SNUFFING out. Ad astra! Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

PA obviously did think of it as a snuffing out. A timeline is "deleted" from the point of view of someone who has travelled to a subsequent timeline.

Paul.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Testing. I think my comment disappeared. Sean

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I am trying to get that straight in my head: that "deleted" universes are not snuffed our, they become INACCESSIBLE to time travelers from the Danellian universe.

Thanks for restoring my lost comments.

Ad astra! Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

I think that what you do not fully grasp is that there are two temporal dimensions involved. A deleted timeline does not exist now in the current timeline. It exists/existed (a Temporal tense is needed) in the past of a second temporal dimension.

Paul.