At the beginning of the interstellar voyage:
"'...the ship was more or less of a skeleton inside, the idea was for the crew to complete work on it en route. That was so they could get started sooner, and have more to do. Good idea, and it took ten or twenty years at their easy pace.'" (p. 104)
Not a good idea. That is what I call a "make work" because it makes work, like digging holes and filling them in again. Maybe getting started sooner is a good idea but not "having more to do." There should be plenty to do if the ship's computers contain all of human knowledge and culture and with an entire universe outside the ship to observe and study. The idea seems to be that the crew are in the ship merely so that their descendants can be at Alpha Centauri. Those lives spent in the ship matter as much as any lives spent on a planet. The whole idea is misconceived, as far as I can see.
17 comments:
The proportion of human beings who -want- to be artists, scientists and philosophers is rather low.
The proportion who have the -capacity- to do so is lower still.
Rather more of a select group like this ship's crew, but still a minority unless eugenics was a major part of the process.(*)
There's a reason for the saying "The Devil makes work for idle hands."
(*) and if you -were- that selective, it would probably be a disaster. The phrase "trying to herd cats" comes to mind.
BTW, it's not "make-work".
They're completing the spaceship, which is necessary to their own survival and to the mission.
They're just doing it rather slowly, and doing something that could have been done before the ship was launched.
Comparable example: until recently, navies had large parts of warship crews doing things like chipping away old paint and putting on new and other labor-intensive maintenance.
This was closer to 'make-work' than the example you quote, but it was necessary if the ship was to to be ship-shape.
It was also necessary to keep the large fighting crews occupied. The number of men you need to -fight- a warship is vastly larger than the number you need to -sail- it, and that's been true since antiquity.
Recently, navies have put effort into developing paints and floor coverings and so forth that need less labor -- because crews have decreased considerably in size due to developments in weapons technology.
Eg., a USN "Constellation"-class frigate (a class now under construction) will have about the same displacement as a heavy cruiser of WWII vintage.
But its complement will be 24 officers and 176 enlisted crew.
The comparable WWII ships had complements of round 900.
200 sailors is a lot less than 900 -- but a merchant ship of the same size would have 20 or less nowadays.
Also, a group comprised of young males is a special, and specially difficult, case. You need really strict discipline and control, or blood will flow. I went to boy's boarding schools; it was like being in the baboon enclosure at the zoo.
"It was also necessary to keep the large fighting crews occupied."
That was a major plot point of the short story by Niven & Pournelle set shortly before the start of "The Mote in God's Eye". The New Chicago rebels lost a space battle partly because greater automation on their ship let the crew get slack.
Kaor, Paul!
I disagree, sometimes "make work" is necessary, for the reasons outlined by Stirling.
Candidly, you are being far too idealistic about human beings.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
At this stage, I am imagining the crew only as highly trained, highly skilled individuals enjoying whatever leisure or recreational activities they want.
Paul.
Paul: the Devil makes work for idle hands... and it doesn't matter if they're attached to an intelligent brain. All the worse, in fact -- highly intelligent people get bored more easily.
Kaor, Paul!
I still disagree. See what Stirling wrote, immediately above. If anything, I distrust intellectuals more!
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
But I am not sure what you are disagreeing with. I think that an interstellar expedition along the lines that I suggest is preferable to what we see in "The Troublemakers" where there is an entire "class" of crewfolk who live in drab quarters and are fed endless, mindless TV.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Because I think you are being far too idealistic about humans. A STL generation ship with a large crew of 7,000 or more on a journey lasting more than a century is simply NOT going to be mostly comprised of philosophic minded dreamers devoted to pure scientific research. Please reread Stirling's first comments in this combox.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean
Well, I don't want philosophic dreamers but scientists able to contribute to and benefit from the voyage and that does not include manual labourers fed mindless TV.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
The purpose of those manual laborers was to help finish building the ship during the journey. And to take care of maintenance and repairs without the ship depending too much on machines that might fail and could not be replaced.
Also, a few scientists would not have enough of the genetic potential a colony founded light years away will need for survival. So, 7000 to 10,000 is barely enough!
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Yes, some of it makes sense.
It would have to be more than a few scientists.
Paul.
The population is meant to grow to 10,000 by journey's end.
I think that the ship should have automatic systems with a large team of technicians skilled in their maintenance and repair, people who would be able to help with pure research when not needed either for routine maintenance or for emergency repairs, but maybe there were technological or other reasons for not organizing the mission that way. We have discussed this story before but not in this depth.
Kaor, Paul!
What I am trying to argue for is my belief that most of the crew of a STL generation ship with thousands of people aboard simply won't belong to the top ten percent of the human race in intellect and abilities. Nor can it be like that, not if you want a population base large enough for a new colony to have a chance of surviving.
By all means there should be some automated machinery and technicians qualified for handling and repairing them.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Within the ship, the crew, using the best educational techniques available to them, would have to find out what each individual in each new generation was capable of and assign roles accordingly. It would not be like anything that had happened on Earth. There would have to be several alternative and adaptable plans. New generations, reaching adulthood, would participate in decision-making processes so that, before long, future developments would become unpredictable.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
As far as the merely educational aspects of your plan goes, I have no objection, worth trying, it might even succeed to some small degree. But the POLITICS? No, never. Because humans are simply never going to behave, in the mass, as we would like them to be. There will always be some who try to game whatever system is used. And others will be simply be corrupt and abusive.
Any political system, whatever form it takes, has to be based on what humans are actually like if it's going to have a chance of surviving and not being too bad.
Ad astra! Sean
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