Caruith to Jaan:
"-I will grow with you, and you with me, and they with us, until mankind is not only worthy to be received into Oneness, it will bring thereunto what is wholly its own. And at last sentience will create God. Now come, let us proclaim it to the people." (1, p. 76)
Jesus in the presence of his disciples, according to John:
"'...that they may be one, just as you and I are one: I in them and you in me, so that they may be completely one, in order that the world may know that you sent me...'" (Jn. 17: 22-23)
Remember that Caruith is not a genuine Ancient but a delusion foisted on Jaan by Aycharaych. Now contemplate the enormity of the crime committed by Aycharaych:
"'Artificial schizophrenia. Split personality. A man who was sane, made to hear "Voices."' Ivar shuddered." (20, p. 228)
Does Aycharaych feel any remorse? None:
"'What happiness has Jaan lost that has not already been repaid him a thousandfold?'" (p. 229)
We must value truth above the kind of happiness paid by Aycharaych.
Here is my formulation of oneness: the One imagines that It is us and we imagine the gods so they are in us and we are in It. All is one.
13 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
What "Caruith" said to Jaan was both absurd and blasphemous. Created, flawed, imperfect, limited beings cannot create God! The Uncreated, God, cannot logically be created and also God.
I agree, what Aycharaych did to Jaan, inducing artificial schizophrenia, was monstrous.
I have to empathically disagree with your last comment. Because I believe God is real and He knows us. And the souls of the blessed in Paradise will know Him as much as it will be possible for limited beings to do so. And sometimes mystics on Earth are granted intimations of that knowledge, such as Dame Julian's REVELATIONS OF DIVINE LOVE.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Of course, if God is defined as uncreated, then he cannot be created but that is just the meaning of a word which tells us nothing about the empirical world.
The word, "God," is used in different senses. I think that consciousness cannot have pre-existed the universe. It follows that a transcendent consciousness can exist, if at all, only as a result of an evolution within, then beyond, the universe.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Then I have to disagree with your comment's second paragraph: because I do believe God to be eternal, transcendent, and uncreated.
Ad astra! Sean
The echoes of Christ's life in Jaan are not accidental, of course -- that was one source of 'resonant myth' that Aycharaych was tapping.
Sean,
Of course some people, including yourself, are theists but questions about God cannot simply be settled by definition.
Paul.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling and Paul!
Mr. Stirling: Certainly! Aycharaych deliberately took "echoes" from the lives of both Christ and Mohammed as parts of this scheme for "convulsing and shattering" the Empire.
Paul: But some who ask "questions" don't seem to want any answers--esp. if the logic of those answers points them in directions they don't want to go. I am not saying that is how you think, only that some do.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
But some people cling to theism from dishonest motives. Merely saying that does not advance the discussion.
Paul.
Re: God being 'created'.
In a universe that includes time travel, God can be created at some point in the universes existence & go back in time to start the universe.
It's about as sensible as anything else that uses time travel.
Jim,
In some senses of "God," yes but, in other senses, no.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I'm reminded of John Henry Newman. He began as a devout low church Anglican. But, as time passed and he deepened his knowledge of Christian history and theology, he came more and more to question the grounds on which Protestantism is based, becoming more high church and "Catholic" in his thought. Lastly, the furor caused by his famous "Tract 90" convinced Newman he could no longer be an Anglican, that his beliefs had become Catholic--with him soon converting to the Church.
My point being that, however reluctantly at first, Newman accepted the logic of the direction his questioning and the answers he found led him. He did not dishonestly remain an Anglican--and accepted the very real sacrifices and opprobrium his search brought on him.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Sure. And CS Lewis honestly converted to Christianity but Anglican, not Catholic. And I disagree with Lewis's philosophical arguments for theism.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I recall Lewis stating his upbringing in the anti Catholic atmosphere of Ulster was partly why he did not move further towards Catholicism. It was BIG steps, discarding atheism and noxious anti Catholic prejudices.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
Sure but where does all this get us? People start in very different places. Some honestly inquire. And those that do inquire can wind up in very different places. Some atheists are unwilling to consider that theism might be true but the same is true the other way around. We can each only inquire for ourselves.
Paul.
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