Voluspa (and see here) was a poem with a single author, not, as I like to think of it, one book in a Norse Pagan canon. Nevertheless, it expressed what some people believed. The gods would meet their doom but would not first be challenged by a solo god. Gunnhild sounds as if she believes that the old gods and the single new god literally coexist:
"Gunnhild wondered whether the gods were fighting for their hold on man or for their very lives.
"Victorious everywhere this side of the Moors and Arabs, Christ had now driven them from Denmark, and still he pressed on eastward. Yes, at his back they lingered in the Western Isles and Iceland; but once the motherland fell, or even before, those outposts too would be lost. As yet, the Goths knew little of him and the Swedes less. But he could leave such folk in their hallowed shaws at their bloody altar stones while he outflanked them through Norway. Let him take that fastness and the rest of the North would lie open. Already he had won footholds.
"The gods fought back, with weather and worshippers for weapons. They had brought him to a standstill. How long could this last? If Christ was almighty, why did his warriors sweep everything before him?"
-Poul Anderson, Mother Of Gods (New York, 2003), Book Five, Chapter IX, pp. 438-439.
Omnipotence would be not quantitatively but qualitatively different from very great power. Resistance to the latter is difficult; to the former, impossible. However, omnipotence would have no need to oppress or exploit. Thus, resistance to it would be in any case unnecessary. If omnipotence sustained the existence of everything else, then fighting it would be as impossible and unnecessary as fighting the air that we breathe or the spatiotemporal framework within which we exist. And, as the source of everything other than itself, omnipotence would be the source even of the thought of opposing it.
Meanwhile, I like Gunnhild's ideas of Christ outflanking the gods through Norway while they bring him to a temporary standstill.
15 comments:
Paul:
"Force rules the world still,
Has ruled it, shall rule it;
Meekness is weakness,
Strength is triumphant,
Over the whole earth
Still is it Thor's-Day!
Thou art a God too,
O Galilean!
And thus single-handed
Unto the combat,
Gauntlet or Gospel,
Here I defy thee!"
-- "The Saga of King Olaf," Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, 1863
(The poem briefly mentions "Queen Gunnhild's wrath and wrack," which I'd forgotten until I looked it up to quote the above passage, so it's even more appropriate here than I at first knew.)
David,
Thanks. I didn't know that Christ had made it into a saga. The significance of "Gauntlet"?
Paul.
Or is that written, not merely translated, by Longfellow?
Paul:
It was written by Longfellow, but drawing its major events from the *Heimskringla* of Snorri Sturluson. Christ never physically makes an appearance in Longfellow's poem, and I can't speak for *Heimskringla* (although I've read that Snorri's saga in fact portrays the Norse gods as having been mortal men who were declared divine by later generations).
The significance of "Gauntlet" is that it's Thor himself speaking those particular lines -- and he wore special gauntlets when throwing Mjolnir.
"Here amid icebergs
Rule I the nations;
This is my hammer,
Miölner the mighty;
Giants and sorcerers
Cannot withstand it!
These are the gauntlets
Wherewith I wield it,
And hurl it afar off;
This is my girdle;
Whenever I brace it,
Strength is redoubled!"
I presume Longfellow chose to emphasize the gauntlet simply for its alliteration with "Gospel."
David,
All good stuff! I heard or read somewhere that a spaewife had announced that Thor challenged Christ to single combat.
Paul.
I recall something like that from "The Saga of Burnt Njal." A pagan asks a Christian, "Don't you know that Thor has challenged Christ to holmgang, and Christ has refused?"
The Christian, who probably does not have a deep theological education, says, "Don't you know that without the will of Christ, Thor would crumble into dust?"
Or words to that effect; it's been close to thirty years since ?I read the book.
Best Regards,
Nicholas D. Rosen
Nicholas,
That Christian's reply shows some understanding of Christian ideas of creation and omnipotence.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul and Nicholas!
And, of course, a more deeply knowledgeable Christian would deny Thor or Odin exists or ever existed at all. That all other "gods" except the One are literal "non-entities."
Sean
Removed previous post because I discovered after submitting it that I'd attributed the work to the wrong artist.
All:
A comic book artist did a brief story about the Greek gods showing up at the crucifixion of Christ to mock Him. In response, He pulled Himself loose from the cross and proceeded to give their Olympian butts what is sometimes colloquially known as "a shellackin'!"
The artist drew Christ as having the kind of muscles you'd expect on, say, Batman or Captain America. Well, He WAS raised as the son of a carpenter, and He probably helped out with the woodworking at least sometimes. And wow, I would never want anybody built like that to glare at ME the way He was at Zeus and Company....
Remember, when anybody asks the question "What Would Jesus Do?" -- overturning tables and chasing people with a scourge are among the options. (That's a quote from somebody else, but I wish I'd thought of it.)
David,
I don't like the sound of that representation of Christ, though! Something more restrained and allusive would be more appropriate.
Paul.
Sean,
The two points are almost the same, though. In the Christian view, Thor does not even begin to exist because the Biblical deity does not will him into existence.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
True. But I would argue it's impossible for any other "god" to exist. God will not create a "god." A god which had to be created by God would logically have to not be a god, because it had a beginning. The true God is un-created and existed from all eternity.
Sean
Kaor, Paul!
But there were times when Christ was sharp, even harsh. Such as His denunciations of the Scribes and Pharisees.
Sean
Paul:
It's generally agreed to be a very BAD portrayal; collecting some of the worst aspects of 1990s comics art (not to mention that the dialogue and narrative were poorly written; "thee" and "thou" were used without regard to proper grammar, for instance). Still, it was gods vs. God in direct combat, so I thought it kind of amusingly appropriate to this particular thread.
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