Beyond the River Flone and the Julian Canal, there are many newer, smaller canals as well as garishly coloured modern buildings in the industrial area called the Web. The class of manufacturers, merchants and managers, only a few generations old, has more interests in common with the Empire than with the centuries-old social strata of scholars and Landfolk.
Most Townfolk, belonging to ancient guilds or other corporate bodies, lean more toward the Landfolk and the University. The Firstman of Ilion is Speaker of the three Houses of Parliament. His second is the Chancellor of the University and his third is elected by the Townfolk delegates. Peter Jowett, the merchant who advises High Commissioner Desai, is a delegate from a single Townfolk faction and not on intimate terms with the Firstman.
The Firstman owes his primacy to the facts that Ilion was the most important region and Hesperia was its richest region and Aeneans are traditionalists. Aeneas in Flandry's time, like Hermes in Falkayn's time, leaves room for reform. Both are human only planets whereas Dennitza has a third House in the Parliament/Shkoptsina for zmayi/ychani/Merseians and Avalon is jointly ruled by the Parliament of Man and the Great Khruath of all the choths.
When Ivar Frederiksen plans revolt, he lives in a cheap room in the Web and makes contact with members of the new criminal underworld. There is scope for a novel and a series about the Web.
16 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
In what ways does the socio-political setup on Aeneas "leaves room for reform"? Aeneas never struck me as being oppressive.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
The subcultures have no political representation. Property qualification for franchise.
Jowett says that the Firstman of Ilion owes his primacy to the fact his area was the wealthiest but population and production have moved.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
But those sub cultures don't seem to care much about that lack of political representation. And since the planetary gov't in Nova Roma doesn't seem to rule very tightly, that lessens even more any incentive to care.
That's not being oppressive, the Firstman of Ilion was the planetary chief of state, not if it was customary, traditional, and ACCEPTED as right and legal.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I did not say that it was oppressive! The Firstmanship was accepted. Aeneans were traditionalists.
But people like Jowett were in a position to start wanting more recognition and influence. If production and population had moved away from Ilion, then eventually other parts of the planet might start wanting more representation and might seek common cause with some members of the subcultures. Societies evolve. That is all that I meant. I certainly do not like a property qualification for the franchise.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
This clarifies what you meant. I can see people like Peter Jowett, coming from a new class of entrepreneurs, businessmen, urban workers, etc., wanting more influence and recognition.
Some kind of property/tax qualification for voting is not necessarily a bad idea, as long as the sum required is not too high.
Ad astra! Sean
"Firstman of Ilion owes his primacy to the fact his area was the wealthiest but population and production have moved."
It sounds like Anderson was thinking of the 'Rotten Boroughs' in Britain when he wrote that. Britain wasn't terribly oppresive, but needed the reforms of the 19th century.
"property/tax qualification for voting is not necessarily a bad idea"
I would disagree. It means that those at the bottom of the economy don't have a say in reforms that might help them move up.
An extreme case is the Roman Republic in which the patricians held power & there was an inherent gerrymander that kept the plebeian's votes from having an influence. Even more so for other residents of Italy & then regions outside Italy conquered by Rome were simply exploited. It is essential than *everybody* has the vote.
Agreed.
Kaor, Jim!
I still disagree, as regards things like property/tax qualifications for voting. Recall how I stipulated such qualifications should be fixed at a fairly low level. The reasoning behind such ideas being how only people of some MEANS, and hence presumably responsible types, should have the franchise. Impoverished proletarians would be considered too ignorant or easily swayed by power hungry demagogues to vote wisely.
Both the US and the UK used to have such qualifications for voting. But they were steadily lowered till they were entirely abolished.
I don't understand what you meant about the Firstman of Ilion. No mention was made of him controlling the Aenean equivalent of rotten boroughs.
I believe the problem with the Rome of the Late Republic was how its institutions, workable for a small to medium size state, were inadequate when Rome had become a great power dominating the Mediterranean world. So factional strife, corruption and abuse of power, and civil wars destroyed the Republic.
Ad astra! Sean
"only people of some MEANS, and hence presumably responsible types, should have the franchise"
This unfairly maligns many or even most poor people.
Sure bad decisions can put & keep someone in poverty, but a bit of bad luck can do that too. Once you are in poverty it is hard to get out.
"It is expensive to be poor." You can't afford to buy the good stuff that is cheaper *in the long run*.
If you start out rich you can make make decisions bad enough to lose it all, but you have a margin of error to make mistakes & correct them that someone born into poverty doesn't have.
As for Late Roman Republic: the wealth of the conquests going all to the already wealthy made the problems worse & the flaws in the institutions more harmful, but making Rome a fully democratic rather than oligarchic republic from the start would have been far better.
The poorest in society have problems and grievances which will be forcefully articulated by someone who will then be denounced as a "demagogue" by the rich and powerful who will regard any policy that challenges their wealth and power as unwise.
The 'Rotten Boroughs' were parliamentary districts that had been wealthy & populous, but the 'population and production moved', resulting in some districts with almost no people having a member of parliament, while cities with new industries & many people had little or no parliamentary representation.
The US founders saw this situation & set up a regular census so districts could be redrawn to keep track of population changes. Other ways were found to game the system & later democracies found ways to stop gerrymandering which the US would be wise to adopt or adapt.
As with the Roman Republic, those who benefit from the current corruption will resist reform.
Kaor, Jim!
I will state again that a property/tax qualification for voting is not necessarily a bad idea, AS LONG AS THE SUM REQUIRED IS NOT TOO HIGH. Please note the capitalized text. It could be set so low that most who are WILLING to vote could easily meet it.
The idea being that those who want to vote should be willing to make some small sacrifice for that. I personally know of people who don't vote and have no interest in doing so.
I'm also reminded of Heinlein's STARSHIP TROOPERS, in which citizenship/the franchise in the Terran Federation was restricted to those who did public service for the Federation. Such as doing a stint in the armed forces. Heinlein's idea in that book being that only those willing to make some effort and sacrifice should vote.
Gerrymandering is an ancient art/vice in the US. Both major parties WILL continue trying, every ten years, to redraw US House districts in their favor. And often ends up being litigated in the courts. And it's not going away.
It might have been possible to reform the Roman Republic, but I don't believe it would ever have been "democratic" in our sense of that word.
I knew about the rotten boroughs which used to exist in the UK, but your comments about them were not relevant for THE DAY OF THEIR RETURN. Nothing is said there about Aeneas having them.
Ad astra! Sean
What is said, which is similar, is that population and production had moved elsewhere but the Firstman of Ilion retained his primacy through tradition. This is the sort of social change that will lead to demands for political reforms.
Kaor, Paul!
I think you are overlooking how the Firstman of Ilion was TRADITIONALLY the planetary chief of state on Aeneas. IOW, his position was more like that of a hereditary prince from an old and long established dynasty. Nothing was said about the Firstman controlling parliamentary seats and appointing MPs to them as was done in the UK in the years before the first Reform Bill of 1832.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I know nothing was said about the Firstman controlling parliamentary seats! I am just trying to see how Jim saw a parallel between the two situations. The parallel is population and production moving away from Ilion while power remains there.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Got it, I think, even if I thought the parallel unsatisfactory.
Ad astra! Sean
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