Kyra Davis continues to live in the Solar System while her download travels to Alpha Centauri. Before downloading, Kyra knew that she, her current organic self, would continue to live as before while at the same time an inorganic copy of her consciousness would begin an interstellar journey. It made no sense beforehand to wonder, "Which one will I be? The organic Kyra on Earth or the download in the spaceship?" Both will exist and both will remember having lived as Kyra in the Solar System. Nevertheless, the download inevitably thinks something like, "So I am the one that wound up as the download."
She reflects:
"I knew quite well what I was letting myself in for. Or imagined I did. It seemed like a toss-up, a fifty-fifty chance that I could go on in my life, proud that I'd done a service necessary but beyond the call of duty. And of course I won the toss. The I who's on Earth did. This I is bound to the vows. Somehow, I didn't understand. Too late now." (p. 414)
Too late now? Would she not have done it if she had understood?
15 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
I am not sure what it was Kyra did not understand. And what vows did her download take?
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I think all I need to suggest at this point is that you reread Anderson's text and see what you think. Then maybe we will discuss it further?
Paul.
Note that later in that series it becomes possible to produce a new organic body and transfer the consciousness to that. Or to record a personality from a body (shutting it down in the process) and then transfer it to another body later. This renders the whole question sort of moot.
You could argue that the machine (or body) which is 'shut down' is killed, but in that position I wouldn't consider it so. From my p.o.v. I go under anesthesia then wake up in a new carrier.
If I could do that now and “wake up” in a young health body, I’d do it immediately and without a second thought.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling1
Paul: A fair suggestion!
Mr. Stirling: And THE HARVEST OF STARS books was not the first time we see Anderson examining such ideas as this, somehow transferring a human personality into a tall artificial body or a new organic body. I had "Call Me Joe" in mind, and that story suggests it doesn't even need to be a new human body "designed" for living on terrestroid planets. Very unhuman quadrupedal bodies were made for living on Jupiter!
While I see your point that for a downloaded personality, it would only only feel like being temporarily anesthesized, the personality left behind in the original body would know it would not experienced that young, healthy new body. The original would have to continue living in the old, flawed body.
IMO, all this is moot, because I strongly doubt such things are even possible!
Ad astra! Sean
Not if that original body doesn’t recover consciousness, which is how Poul shows it. I’m totally up for that.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
But THE HARVEST OF STARS books does show the originals of some downloaded personalities continuing to live in their bodies for longer or shorter times. So THEY knew they would not experience that kind of continued existence, whether in artificial neural nets or new organic bodies.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean: that's how it starts. When Demeter is evacuated, everyone just uploads their personality and the body never becomes conscious again. The personalities are kept "on file" until shipped to the new planet, then downloaded into new bodies.
I think at this point the inevitable deduction would be that when you're old, you just repeat this process without the interstellar journey.
Voila, immortality.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
As a Catholic, I find that revolting! Download your personality (assuming that's even possible) and then the originals either commits suicide or is murdered.
Ad astra! Sean
From the individual’s p.o.v., nobody dies. As the song goes: “You are the journey/Body’s just the bus.”
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
But, I don't believe that. The "original," even if killed right away, knows he's not going to live in that new body.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I go to sleep and wake up OR I die and another person who resembles me, has all my memories and motivations and thinks that he is me begins to exist. Is there any practical difference?
Paul.
Paul: in my opinion, no meaningful distinction.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Both: IF the downloading of human personalities into new bodies is possible, organic or not, then no meaningful difference.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
But, if the dead guy's soul has survived into a hereafter, then there is a difference. And would the new body also have a soul?
Paul.
Post a Comment