Wednesday 9 November 2016

Rounded Up And Shot

The Terrans occupy Hru III. The choths revolt and massacre part of the garrison. When the revolt has been crushed by missiles from space:

"The Wyvans were rounded up and shot. This was done with proper respect for their dignity." (Rise Of The Terran Empire, p. 572)

Does that "...proper respect for their dignity..." ring hollow? It shouldn't. It is infinitely better than the sickening treatment meted out to captured heads of conquered states by SM Stirling's Draka. However, rounding up guys and shooting them remains unpalatable. Is this the lesser evil? Keeping the Peace of Man? If I were an Ythrian on Hru III, then I would migrate to the Domain as soon as possible after the cessation of hostilities. Life under Imperial rule would be intolerable.


6 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I have to disagree with your comments here, because you may be misunderstanding the laws and customs of war here. It might help clarify matters here if you look up Chapter XV of Jerry Pournelle's THE MERCENARY, after Colonel Falkenberg had occupied the town of Allansport on the planet New Washington. This was only a small part of the campaign and Falkenberg wanted to leave only minimal forces as an occupation garrison. So, he asked the mayor of Allansport and the local militia commander, now prisoners, if they and other prominent local citizens would agree to serve as hostages for the peaceful behavior of their people. Granted this, Falkenberg would focus on the next stage of his plan to take the planet from the Confederates on Franklin. Any attempts to attack Falkenberg by pro-Confederates in Allansport would be answered for by the hostages, ranging from seizure of property to execution.

That would seem to have been the situation on Hru III in THE PEOPLE OF THE WIND, altho Poul Anderson, regrettably, did not go into details, leaving them to be inferred. When Imperial forces occupied Hru, local Ythrian leaders were probably asked to serve as hostages for the peaceful behavior of themselves and their people. When, instead, they rebelled and attacked the small Imperial garrison, the wyvans lives were lawfully forfeited.

Recall, the Covenant of Alfzar codified the laws and customs of diplomacy and war that the Empire, Merseia, and probably the other civilized spacefaring powers agreed to accept. And that would include clauses on the administration of occupied enemy territory. What happened on Hru III seems to fit in what I said about Chapter XV of THE MERCENARY.

I concluded that only sufficient force necessary to compel obedience was used in suppressing the rebellion on Hru III. And the wyvans were executed for breaking their agreement to serve as hostages (altho PA did not go into as much detail as I would have liked).

Sean

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I've been wondering, did you look up Chapter XV of THE MERCENARY (which is part of the omnibus THE PRINCE) and consider its possible applicability to Hru III?

One point I forgot to mention was that the advantage for Allansport in prominent local citizens agreeing to be hostages lay in minimizing the size of the occupation garrison. And thus minimizing the inevitable costs, stresses, and strains.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
I will look up THE MERCENARY. I can accept that a war-time practice is legal but still not like it. We really do need to move away from warfare as we have done in some parts of the world. We have moved away from the rule of men to the rule of law, away from weregild to prosecution for murder even of a tramp, away from absolute monarchy to democracy with universal suffrage so some social progress is possible.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Of course we shouldn't LIKE such practices--they are merely sometimes necessary. What civilized nations try to do by the laws and customs of war is to set SOME limits on the harm done by war.

Sadly, I don't see the human race in any parts of the world truly moving away from war. We are merely seeing shorter or longer interludes on this or that part of the world being at war.

Regretfully, while I certainly agree on the desirability of rule by law, replacing weregild and private vengeance by a prosecutor, etc., we have no guarantee of these things being permanent. When civilization eventually collapses all of the things you listed can too easily be reversed.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
All fair comments - unfortunately. We discuss everything here, thanks to Poul Anderson.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

And also due to the works of S.M. Stirling as well. At least in part because of how Poul Anderson was an inspiration to him. Which I think we see most clearly in his two "Lords of Creation" books.

Sean