Poul Anderson Appreciation: A Theological Issue

Thursday, 17 August 2017

A Theological Issue

I think that Christian premises entail universalist conclusions. If an omnipotent creator creates from nothing my character and environment, then He creates all the interactions between that character and that environment and these interactions include my actions. Thus, He can predetermine my actions so that those actions eventually lead to my acceptance of salvation. This is not to argue that God's foreknowledge (more accurately, His transtemporal knowledge) predetermines my actions. It is to argue that His creation of my character and environment determines my actions. A child can have free will in relation to his parents if they let him do what he wants but he cannot have free will in relation to his omnipotent creator Who causes him to want what he wants and Who could have caused him to want, and therefore to do, something else.
-copied from here.

The above paragraph is part of my philosophical response to a theological issue that arises periodically when discussing works of fantasy that assume the existence of the Biblical creator and related supernatural entities.

9 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...: Kaor, Paul!

And of course the orthodox Christian belief is that despite God's "transtemporal knowledge" (to use your term) such a child or adult DOES have free will "in relation to his omnipotent creator." I don't claim to understand how that is possible, only that it is the insistence of the Catholic Church that is indeed the case.

Sean; 17 August 2017 at 16:11
paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...: Sean,
Again, I think that omniscience does not cause a problem for free will but omnipotent creation does.
Paul.; 17 August 2017 at 16:28
Sean M. Brooks said...: Kaor, Paul!

I still have to disagree. I argue that the universe, ultimately, had a BEGINNING or first cause, and that was God. God, to BE God, also has to be omnipotent as well as omniscient.

Sean; 17 August 2017 at 22:43
paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...: Sean,
Yes. But I think that the omnipotence is incompatible with free will in creatures. If we know two men, A and B, thoroughly well, then we confidently predict that A, who is scrupulously honest, will always tell the truth even at his own expense whereas B, who is notoriously shifty and dishonest, will lie to protect himself and will never admit to any wrong-doing. An omnipotent creator could have created A and B equally honest.
On this issue, you don't seem to respond to the precise point that I am making. I expect you still to disagree but I want to get us to the point where we at least seem to be addressing the same point in the argument? Of course, in an unusual situation, A, who is usually honest, might surprise us by lying. He might act "out of character." This is because we do not know all of his internal processes or all of the pressures that he must face. An omnipotent creator not only knows all of those processes and pressures. He creates them. So he is in full control of all the factors determining A's actions. A is free in relation to his fellow creatures as long as we do not coerce or constrain him but A cannot be free in relation to his omnipotent creator. The creator creates the person, his character, motivations, aptitudes, the temptations he is subjected to - everything. A saint is physically capable of abusing or torturing a child but is morally incapable of doing so. An omnipotent creator is able to create a world where no one is morally capable of harming a child.
Paul.; 17 August 2017 at 23:02
Sean M. Brooks said...: Kaor, Paul!

I'll try to address the point you are stressing.

God must know or create all of the processes and pressures we live under. Therefore He controls all the factors determining how A acts. I hope I got the gist of your argument correctly. I still argue that if A is free in how he behaves towards his fellow creatures, then he is still free vis a vis God. Because God does not use His omnipotence to force A or B or anyone else to behave against their wills. I hope this makes sense!

Sean; 17 August 2017 at 23:17
paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...: Sean,
God, on the assumption that He is the single omnipotent creator from nothing of all things other than Himself, does both create and know all the processes inside us and all the pressures outside us. If I am tempted to get drunk, He could have (i) created me with a strong distaste for alcohol; (ii) created me with enough will power easily to resist the temptation; (iii) prevented me from being tempted in the first place.
I do not say that God forces A to act against his will. I say that God creates A, including A's will.
Paul.; 17 August 2017 at 23:24
paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...: Sean,
Forcing someone (let's say X) to behave against his will is something that one more powerful but still finite being (let's say Y) does to another. Y (i) finds that X already exists; (ii) finds that X wants to do A; (iii) prevents X from doing A. God (i) does not find X aleady in existence; (ii) creates X wanting to do A; (iii) could have created X not wanting to do A.
Paul.; 18 August 2017 at 09:10
Sean M. Brooks said...: Kaor, Paul!

Thanks for your comments, even if ultimately, I still have to disagree. I still believe we have free will, even vis a vis God. Because that is the teaching of the Catholic Church. But I would need to know how theologians and philosophers have responded to arguments of the kind you have made,, and which I admit feeling unable to respond to.

Sean; 18 August 2017 at 14:37
paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...: Sean,
Thank you. We seem to have reached some clarity. I have taken the argument as far as I can at present and I know that it is an on-going discussion between theologians and philosophers of the highest calibre.
Paul.; 18 August 2017 at 14:54