Ulf Markham is still alive in Jerry Pournelle's and SM Stirling's last Man-Kzin Wars story and is killed in Poul Anderson's first Man-Kzin Wars story. Therefore, all the Pournelle-Stirling stories are set before all the Anderson stories. Simple.
In "Warriors," Larry Niven introduced the kzinti, thus creating a Man-Kzin Wars period in his Known Space future history which also features several human colony planets including Wunderland in the Alpha Centauri system.
In "The Children's Hour," Jerry Pournelle and SM Stirling introduced Harald's Terran Bar in Munchen on Wunderland during the kzinti occupation.
In "Iron," Poul Anderson introduced Robert and Dorcas Saxtorph who fly from Sol to Alpha Centauri to negotiate with Commissioner Markham of the Interworld Commission after the kzinti occupation.
In "Inconstant Star," Anderson introduces Tyra Nordbo who meets with Robert Saxtorph in Harald's Terran Bar.
"The Children's Hour" and "The Asteroid Queen" by Pournelle and Stirling show us Markham before he meets Saxtorph. Their "In The Hall of the Mountain King" shows us Tyra before she meets Saxtorph.
And I think I have got that right.
"'...[the kzinti] did invent the gravity polarizer.'" (The Man-Kzin Wars, p. 80)
This was said before it was learned that the kzinti got all their space technology from another race. Many, though not all, of the apparent contradictions in a series can be ironed out by reflecting that most statements are made from particular points of view. In Anderson's Technic History, are the Merseians mammals? See here.
When Saxtorph visits Harald's Terran Bar, it no longer displays a "humans only" sign. Saxtorph reflects:
"Mustn't offend potential customers or, God forbid, local idealists." (Man-Kzin Wars III, p. 175)
Those who object to a "humans only" sign are to be disparaged as "idealists"? I would experience a certain amount of social friction if I were to meet some of Anderson's characters.
There will be more but not tonight.
6 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
I suspect the "local idealists" Saxtorph regarded with some disdain were the Known Space equivalents of those who believed in the "brotherhood of beings" twaddle we see in Anderson's Technic Series. That is, the kind of people who apparently denied there were any real DIFFERENCES between intelligent races, and who may have advocated a pacifism stubbornly ignoring very real and implacable enemies. And we in fact see the Merseian Protector preparing to issue orders in THE GAME OF EMPIRE for Merseian Intelligence to spread disingenuous propaganda and disinformation to the "useful idiots" (Lenin's term!) in the Terran Empire advocating a blind pacifism.
Sean
Sean,
Do you know where Lenin said this? If Saxtorph means this, then he is blurring the issues by expressing disdain for those who object to a "humans only" sign.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I'm sorry to say I don't have immediately to hand a source for the "useful idiots" phrase. My RECOLLECTION was that it goes back to that evil man Lenin. I will try to find a source for the term. Alexander Solzhenitsyn did quote in volume I of GULAG Lenin's habit of referring to any who opposed him as "insects" in his writings.
As for the "humans only" sign we used to see in Harald's Terran Bar I would say that was merely a gesture of forlorn defiance during the period of the Kzinti occupation. Not something to be taken VERY seriously. The fact the sign was taken down after the end of the occupation would seem to bear this out.
Sean
Sean,
i agree "humans only" was defiance during the occupation.
Paul.
"Useful idiot"
Wikipedia has an article on the phrase, which says it can't be found in the writings of Lenin.
Kaor, Jim!
I don't clearly recall the origins of "useful idiots," except that it was associated with that loathsome creature Lenin. Or possibly his henchmen.
Ad astra! Sean
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