Of Poul Anderson's science fictional species, the Lunarians most closely resemble elves. However, other comparisons can also be made.
When preparing for war:
"Each province of Alfheim was readying itself alone; the elves were too haughty to work well in concert." (p. 95)
"'Overweening pride, bickering, haggling about details. We Ythrians - our dominant culture, at least - don't fit well into anything centralized.'"
-Poul Anderson, The People Of The Wind IN Anderson, Rise Of The Terran Empire (Riverdale, NY, March 2011), pp. 437-662 AT II, p. 456.
The trolls, about to attack Alfheim, conceal their preparations by screening their lands with magic. The Terrans, preparing to attack Ythri, conceal their preparations by assembling in interstellar space.
Finally, for now, trolls, like Merseians, use every period of peace to prepare for the next war while the Merseians also treat diplomacy as continuation of war by other means.
Sfnal and fantasy realms reflect reality.
While reading hard sf, it is impossible to conceive that realms ruled by magic instead of by physics might also exist. However, multiversal scenarios accommodate the coexistence of every imaginable kind of universe.
24 comments:
Human beings cooperate better than any other variety of hominid. This is why we replaced all the other varieties. Cooperation makes you better at competition.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Paul: When it comes to relations between rival powers, small or great, diplomacy is almost always going to be war by other means, except in relatively minor matters. IWHBD
Mr. Stirling: Our branch of the hominins was more cooperatively effective at being externally aggressive. A formulation you suggested in an earlier combox comment. And which stuck with me.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean: yeah, war is competition fueled by cooperation.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
Absolutely! It's crucial to be hard headedly realistic and have no Tom fool illusions about our-selves and all other human beings.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean: Yup. Human beings are not perfectable. You and I differ on -why- that is, but we agree on the substance.
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
Correct, we agree on "what" human beings are like and that NTTB is the best we can realistically hope for.
Ad astra! Sean
Disagree.
Paul: I think you've experienced a limited slice of human beings. I've met all sorts.
But conditions can be different in future.
Kaor, Paul!
I don't care about those "conditions," real human beings are going to remain as varied and conflict prone as we see them now. So, I agree with Stirling.
Ad astra! Sean
You don't care about "conditions"! People are just as prone to cannibalism when they are well fed as when they are starving?
Paul: well, many African tribes were cannibals, regardless of how well fed they were. So were the Aztecs, who ate large chunks of the people they sacrificed to their Gods.
When Stanley was going down the Congo River, he was often attacked by men shouting:
"Meat! Meat! We're going to have plenty of meat!"
Culturally entrenched cannibalism?
Of course my point about "conditions" still stands. Extreme hunger would drive some people to consider cannibalism who otherwise would never have thought of it.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Paul: Yes, I don't care because those "conditions" are relative, meaning people don't need rational reasons for behaving badly, such as cannibalism or human sacrifices. Which is what Stirling and I firmly believe. I do not share your confidence in human rationality.
Mr. Stirling: Exactly, and since the Aztecs and those Africans were not starving to death, they had reasons that were rational to them justifying human sacrifices/cannibalism. No matter what other people thought of those reasons.
Ad astra! Sean
BTW, I've also met people who tried to kill me. This... tends to give you a jaundiced view of human nature...
And during my 2 nights as a bouncer, I also met a lot of drunks who puked on me...
Kaor, Mr. Stirling!
Both cases are more than good enough reasons for being jaundiced about human beings!
I'm a Catholic, not a Calvinist, but the views that we have been seeing about human nature, that we both agree are not true, ends up with me coming periously close to the Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity.
Ad astra! Sean
Cannibalism or human sacrifice could occur in any social conditions? Absurd.
Paul: note that human sacrifice was present from the earliest Mesoamerican civilizations, but that it got steadily more prominent.
Until under the Aztecs, when they dedicated their 7th Temple to their war-god in 1486, they sacrificed 5,000 people in three days and nights, more than one a minute.
This was a cultural dead-end, to put it mildly.
Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!
Paul: No, not absurd. I can all too easily imagine cannibalism and human sacrifices occurring in any "social conditions" if circumstances and factors turned out just "right." Besides the real-world example Stirling mentioned, Anderson examined such possibilities in stories like "Welcome," "Teucan," and "The Sharing of Flesh."
Mr. Stirling: That Mesoamerican obsession with human sacrifices and cannibalism, culminating in the grotesque horrors of the Aztecs, was absolutely a dead end for them! The Flower Wars waged by the Aztecs against their neighbors (including rebellious vassals) to obtain victims for sacrifices ended with non-Aztec nations willing to become allies of the Spanish if that would bring down the Aztecs. At least the Spanish would not sacrifice and eat them!
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
That is a contradiction. Circumstances and factors turning out "just right" equates to a particular kind of "social conditions," not just to any "social conditions." Our present social conditions and many others preclude cannibalism.
"Social conditions" do not need to be put inside quotation marks. We all live in one set of conditions as against any other or in some kind of social vacuum.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I disagree, not a contradiction. You overlooked how I double quoted "right." It is possible to imagine factors and circumstances that could lead to things like human and sacrifices. A sudden, huge, and tremendous shock and catastrophe like the Fall leading to the world seen in Stirling's THE PESHAWAR LANCERS could bring about a reversal in one or more nations of those social conditions preventing cannibalism/human sacrifices.
Any civilization worthy of that name is only a thin veneer on human beings. Savagery and barbarism of any kind can erupt if the factors/circumstances are just "right" for such eruptions.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
But I agree that a catastrophe can reverse conditions preventing cannibalism! We seem to be at cross-purposes here. We can and do build societies in which cannibalism is unthinkable and we do not know what will happen in future.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Good, that clarifies matters here.
Ad astra! Sean
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