Ydwyr does some work on Djana, which he later calls a reconditioning.
He refers to the Old Way. She refers to the Old Way to the One. These are clearly the same Way. He says that they must not tread this Way to the end because they must cope with the teal world and cannot do this by abandoning reason. In my opinion, the One is the single reality. It incorporates what we usually call the real world and the way to it is by transcendence, not abandonment, of reason. But I have addressed this issue before.
When Djana is at peace, the wind lulls, tossing her hair and caressing her skin whereas, when she returns to the base where Ydwyr will tell her of a threat to Flandry, the elements change accordingly: dusk falls, chill increases, wind loudens...
Addendum: The passage summarized immediately above ends: "...stars blinked forth." (p. 306) The stars play their role. Recently, they "jeered" on Wayland. However, I wanted to emphasize the symbolism of the transition from lulling to loudening wind.
17 comments:
Kaor, Paul!
No, here I think you are anthropomorphizing the merely material universe, investing transcendence in it. No, despite its splendor and beauty the cosmos is not the source of transcendence. I recall how Stirling discussed that one of the things Christianity did was to de-divinize the universe, de-mythologizing it, and how that was necessary before a true science became possible. It's my belief that any re-mythologizing of the universe will be bad for science and logical thought, opening the door for many superstitions coming back into widespread belief.
In fact I can think of any number of superstitions which are actually widely believed now!
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
I am not anthropomorphizing. I think that the One is impersonal. I do not agree that "material" is "merely." It is dynamic and has always had the potential for life, consciousness and creativity.
I value mythology, e.g., Thor, and science, e.g., meteorology, and do not propose to reintroduce stories about Thor in any way that would displace meteorological explanations of thunder storms.
Paul.
To transcend is to go beyond. Transcendence happens throughout nature:
three dimensions transcend two;
animal consciousness transcends unconsciousness;
human consciousness transcends animal consciousness;
civilization transcends hunting and gathering;
science transcends superstition;
concrete realization transcends abstract understanding.
Kaor, Paul!
I disagree. At the very least the kind of language you used will, IMO, make it easy for others to think you are applying anthropomorphic terminology to the universe.
We are going to have to agree to disagree about Who or what is the "One."
I do not value mythologies the way you do. Some will only be of mild interest, and there are others I have no interest in. And all of them have errors springing from mistaken premises.
I did not have you in mind as one those who use stories about any pagan gods to explain natural phenomena. But there are people, succumbing to "New Age" superstitions, who do think in disturbingly unscientific and irrational ways.
Kaor, Paul!
My comment above in the last paragraph was incomplete. I wanted to mention how Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ discussed and analyzed some of these absurdities in his book CATHOLICS AND THE NEW AGE (Servant Publications: 1992).
Ad astra! Sean
FWIW I tend to think of NEW AGE as properly spelled with no space between the W and the A and pronounced to rhyme with a word that starts with S. ;^)
Kaor, Jim!
Ha! That was a neat play on "New Age"!
Ad astra! Sea
Sean,
How do I seem to be applying anthropomorphic terminology?
Myths contain errors? Well, yes, if you think that they are meant to be understood as true stories, then they do contain errors. Thor does not fly above during a thunderstorm etc.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
Saying the universe is "conscious" is an obvious, recent example by you of using anthropmorphic language.
An even more basic error is how pagans used to believe Thor, Baal, or Amaterasu actually exist. But the more immediate point is that believing Thor caused thunder would get in the way of rational analysis of such phenomena. Disbelief in Thor made such analysis easier to carry out.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
The universe is conscious of itself only through organisms with central nervous systems.
Myths, like fiction, are an important part of our consciousness, experience, imagination, heritage, literature and art. Without some myths, we would not be human. Without these myths, we would not be the human beings that we are.
Obviously Thor does not literally exist and believing that he did would impede science. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I continue to believe it's clearer and more accurate to say only intelligent beings, separate and apart from the cosmos, can know the universe exists. To use in any way language like "The universe is conscious of itself..." is to use anthropomorphic terminology.
But these days, unless you are a "hard" neo-pagan, the Scandinavian or Greco-Roman myths are only fictions And I agree fictions are important parts of our experience, imagination, literature, arts, etc.
Unfortunately, the past half century has seen a resurgence of irrational superstitions of all kinds, some of which were discussed by Fr. Pacwa in his above mentioned book. I believe they have to be opposed.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
It is not anthropomorphic. It is a way of expressing oneness. The entire cosmos process generates consciousness. We are not separate or apart from that process. We are its conscious part.
Paul.
cosmic process
Kaor, Paul!
Then we are going to have to agree to disagree about that use of "consciousness."
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
The condensation of stars, the stellar fusion of heavier elements, novae dispersing those elements through space, a second generation of stars and planets - all that is necessary for the evolution of life on some planets. And life is necessary for consciousness. Thus, the whole cosmic process generates consciousness. It is a single process. We are part of it, not separate from it. We are sustained by stellar radiation (light and heat), an atmosphere and an ecology. We are one with all that, the conscious part of it.
Paul.
Kaor, Paul!
I continue to disagree, for reasons already given.
Ad astra! Sean
Sean,
But how can we be separate when we are entirely composed of elements fused in stars which condensed from hydrogen and helium? We are simply the latest stage of a single process. In us, it has become conscious.
Paul.
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