12 Scribner Juveniles, including the 5-volume Juvenile Future History;
2 Putnam juveniles, including the controversial Starship Troopers;
2 Moon stories incorporated into the Future History.
(To Scribners' eternal credit, they rejected the thirteenth Juvenile which was then published by Putnam and later filmed to the satisfaction neither of those who liked the book nor of those who disliked it.)
Anderson's juveniles comprise:
two short stories in the Technic History;
one longer story in the Time Patrol series;
one Heinleinian Moon rescue story with a juvenile protagonist.
However, I find this ratio satisfactory. Any Andersonian equivalent of the Scribner Juveniles would necessarily have detracted from the time that Anderson was able to give to the many series that he did write.
9 comments:
Hi, Paul!
Am I right thinking you did not like Heinlein's STARSHIP TROOPERS? If so, why? I myself liked the book, altho I can now see the flaws it has. Some critics have called it a "bildungsroman" (hope that's the correct German word), a coming of age story. One flaw that comes to mind being the unsatisfactory "background" given for the "Bug War." Altho I did like the speculation about how a race with a "hive" mind might evolve.
Sean
Sean,
I thought that, for Heinlein, the aliens were unusually unimaginative. I disliked and disagreed with the brutality and limited franchise of the society that the book not only described but defended.
Paradoxically, I enjoyed thinking about and disagreeing with the compulsory History & Moral philosophy classes. War is justified by saying that two races want the same real estate but it is also said that either race alone could breed too much for the available colonizable planets. Given that even in the unlikely case of one race exterminating the other, the victor would have to limit its breeding, why not both agree to do that in the first place?
The book has nasty effects on sf fans, sometimes making them disagree about why they disagree with it! - although that last is hardly Heinlein's fault.
Paul.
Hi, Paul!
Actually, I agree with you in thinking the aliens in STARSHIP TROOPERS to be weak and unsatisfactory. Heinlein was not as good as Poul Anderson was in speculating about what non humans might be like.
And I think Heinlein's idea that one way to get a good citizenry who will vote wisely is to make them EARN it. So, I have some sympathy for his idea about making would be citizens spend a mimimum two years in the armed forces of the Terran Federation before they can get the franchise. After all, the chance of earning the franchise is left open to all who sign up in the services, whether or not they are healthy. Healthy recruits have to sweat thru the rigors of boot camp while the disabled have to earn citizenship by other means the services think up.
In addition, I found myself often agreeing with what the "monitor" of Juan Rico's History and Moral Philosophy classes said about politics and morality. I did not find those classes any more "compulsory" than Rico's ordinary clases.
What were some of these nasty effects TROOPERS had on some SF fans? I've only been to one convention so I'm not familiar with fandom.
Sean
Sean,
Some Heinlein aliens are good but he didn't try with the ones in TROOPERS.
As I remember, the vote went to those who spent some time working in public services, not necessarily in the military. This is one of those points where Heinlein accused his critics of not being able to read, which shows how unpleasant the arguments could get.
If, as you say, I am sure correctly, that it had to be for a minimum of two years, then I think that means permanent disenfranchisement for those who failed to complete Basic Training?
I said "compulsory" because I think the book says that every student had to attend H&MP although it was not necessary to pass an exam in it.
I have seen one fan get quite heated disagreeing with another fan's criticisms of the book, then giving his own (correct) criticisms of it! That is quite apart from arguments between the book's supporters and defenders.
Paul.
Hi, Paul!
I find myself saying yet again I need to reread Heinlein, in this case to become more familiar with his speculations about non humans!
My MEMORY was a person needed to do time in the armed forces and be honorably discharged before getting the franchise. The two years came from me thinking Heinlein used the US practice of non commissioned military serving for two year stints. I don't recall STARSHIP TROOPERS saying persons who wanted the franchise could obtain thru it other forms of public service than the military.
I also don't recall if those who faied basic training were given another chance if they wished. Perhaps it depends on HOW they failed basic training. I would wish such persons to be granted one more chance at making it thru boot camp.
I understood Juan Rico's History and Moral Philosophy classes to be where a representative of the Terran Federation exlained and defended the ideas on which the Federation was built. It was not meant to be an ordinary class with the usual texts, papers to be written, and tests, etc.
Yes, I agree that Heinlein's STARSHIP TROOPERS has become one of those books which inspires inflamatory arguments, probably to the author's own surprise. After all, it still reads LARGELY like a "coming of age" novel to me.
Sean
Sean,
Yes, I think I read Heinlein responding to criticisms by quoting a passage that said that public service was the way to get the vote and further that those doing military service were only a small percentage of the total. 2 possibilities: (i) I have got this wrong; (ii) most people remember that military service was the way to the vote and do not remember any other option because the book so emphasizes military service and the passage mentioning other options was brief and could have been cut out without changing anything else in the text.
Paul.
Hi, Paul!
A good source for finding out what Heinlein thought and meant is GRUMBLES FROM THE GRAVE, a collection of letters or parts of letters which he wrote. And, the next time I read STARSHIP TROOPERS, I need to keep in mind watching for texts which says there were non military means of obtaining the franchise. Or, as you said, Heinlein might have removed that text.
Sean
Sean,
Sorry, I didn't mean that he MIGHT have removed it, just that it MIGHT have been so brief that it COULD have been removed without affecting anything else. After all, the entire thrust of the book is to glorify the military, not any of those who serve the common good in peaceful roles. I may be quoting something from EXPANDED UNIVERSE? When responding to the criticism that he glorifies the military, Heinlein replies, in effect, "Yes, I glorify the military!" And describes a soldier as someone who "...puts his body between his country and the war's desolation." This is the theme of the novel. So, if there is any brief reference to other kinds of public service in STARSHIP TROOPERS, it is understandable that readers overlook or forget it.
Paul.
Hi, Paul!
Oops, I'm sorry I misunderstood you! Yes, non military means of obtaining the franchise was so briefly mentioned in TROOPERS that it could be easily missed or removed. Got it this time!
Mea culpa! Sean
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