Tuesday, 17 September 2024

Merseians And Ythrians

Merseians were created to be space opera villains but became much more. Flandry is able to cooperate with Merseians of the Roidhunate on Talwin and the Merseians on Dennitza are loyal to the Emperor, not to the Roidhun.

Ythrians, based on a suggestion by John W. Campbell, are a post-mammalian evolutionary stage. Thus, the basis of their creation was completely different. They appear in two novels and one collection, the Earth Book. Every Ythrian story was published in 1973 except the first which was in 1972. 

When Merseians fight Terrans, we support the Terrans whereas, when Ythrians fight Terrans, we support the Ythrians. "Ythrians," as citizens of the Domain of Ythri, include Avalonian human beings.

I am summarizing what we already know in a quick breakfast post before walking over to Morecambe to visit Andrea above the Old Pier Bookshop.

15 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

And I would support the Terrans in the conflict between the Domain and the Empire.

Ad astra! Sean

S.M. Stirling said...

Me too. In any conflict, I support those closest to myself. As the old saying goes, "Me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin; me, my brother and my cousin against the world."

Conflict is normal. It's essentially "us and them" not "good and bad"; that's usually just propaganda.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Mr. Stirling!

Absolutely! Our primary loyalty has to be, should be, to our own people/nation.

Ad astra! Sean

Jim Baerg said...

With the caveat that a loyal citizen of country X might believe that it is a mistake for country X to fight country Y and urge some sort of negotiated settlement of a dispute.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

If I had a brother, then it would be quite feasible for him and me to wind up on opposite sides of a civil war. It would depend on what the issues were and what we both thought about them.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Jim and Paul!

Jim: I can respect "conscientious objectors" if they are willing to accept the penalties imposed for refusing service to their country. But not if they scuttle off to other countries to dodge whatever service might be demanded of them.

Paul: The last time the UK had a civil was during the '45, when supporters of the exiled Stuarts made one last attempt to restore them to the throne. That must have split many families!

Ad astra! Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

More recently, industrial disputes can have the same divisive effect.

Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I mean a real civil war, a conflict fought within a nation by rival factions with organized armies. Like the one described by Anderson in "No Truce With Kings."

Ad astra! Sean

S.M. Stirling said...

People have conflicting identities.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

I understood what you meant but, believe me, some national industrial disputes have come to feel like Cavaliers versus Roundheads, really dividing the country.

Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Yes, but squabbling over pay rates, holiday time, or petty administrative changes does not deserve the kind of passions which causes civil wars.

Ad astra! Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

The Great British Miners' Strike, 1984-85, was about closing down most of the mines in Britain. There were battles between police and pickets.

S.M. Stirling said...

Note that when -nations- come into conflict, particularly in nations with a developed collective consciousness, social divisions are usually put aside. Tribe trumps economics.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul and Mr. Stirling!

Paul: If those UK coal mines were losing money, no longer paying their way, it was inevitable they would eventually close down. One partial solution would be to buy out, pension off the older miners.

Mr. Stirling: A classic example of that was what happened in 1914, when the socialist parties in all the major belligerents of WW I voted for the war credits needed for paying the costs of the war. Patriotism trumped the nonsense about the "international brotherhood of workers."

Ad astra! Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,

Of course that was the argument. My only point here was that it was not a squabble about pay but a major issue which became like a civil war.

International brotherhood is nonsense? Disagree. International solidarity preventing WWI would have been a very good thing. Unfortunately, the Social Democrats caved in.

Paul.