Showing posts sorted by relevance for query deathpride. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query deathpride. Sort by date Show all posts

Sunday, 6 November 2016

Deathpride Rights

Here is an example of human-Ythrian fusion on Avalon:

"'It is written in the Compact...Humans inhabiting Avalon have the deathpride right of free speech, publication, and broadcast, limited only by the deathpride rights of privacy and honor and by the requirements of protection against foreign enemies.'" (Rise Of The Terran Empire, p. 495)

Human concepts
rights
free speech
privacy
honor (archaic?)
defense

Yhtrian concepts
honor
deathpride

Ythrian penalties
weregild
outlawry
exile
enslavement
Oherran

If noncompliance with a Khruath decision or with the Wyvans' judgment in a case is seen as important, then the Wyvans cry Oherran, calling on everyone in the territory to attack the offenders. But the Wyvans have no way to enforce Oherran and:

"If the call to Oherran was rejected...then the Wyvans who cried it had no acceptable alternative to suicide." (p. 498)

This is deathpride - and not the human way.

Friday, 7 November 2014

Avalonian Conference

On Avalon, there is a top level phone conference, with holographic images, between:

Matthew Vickery, President of the Parliament of Man;
Liaw of The Tarns, Wyvan of the High Khruath;
Ferune of Mistwood, First Marchwarden of the Lauran System;
Daniel Holm, Second Marchwarden.

Vickery objects to current military measures and expenditure. Liaw informs him that, when three choths refused to support new defense measures, he and other Wyvans threatened to call Oherran on them. The choths in question yielded but would have to consider it a deathpride matter if it were not kept confidential. This is news to Holm and shakes Vickery. Civil war has just been averted.

Each choth is independent and self-organizing. Member families rarely live close enough for friction. Internal order is kept not by prescription or force but by custom and public opinion. Sanctions are weregild, outlawry, exile and enslavement. Khruaths, periodic gatherings of all free adults in a territory:

settle inter-choth disputes;
establish policies and common undertakings;
try cases and pronounce judgments.

However, winners of votes at Khruaths must rely on willingness to comply or on their own strength to enforce.

There are three levels:

regional Khruaths;
Year-Khruaths of delegates elected from several regional Khruaths;
the High Khruath of the planet, a six-yearly or extraordinary meeting of representatives from Year-Khruaths.

However, any free adult can attend a Khruath on any level. At each level, presiding officers called Wyvans are chosen to explain laws and try cases. The laws sound like British Common Law: customs, precedents and decisions, no legislation - although there is a Compact affirming human Avalonians' deathpride right of free speech, publication and broadcast limited by deathpride rights of privacy and honor and requirements for planetary defense.

Oherran, called only when noncompliance is completely unacceptable, is a summons to everyone in the territory to attack the defiers of a Wyvan's decision. Oherran against a choth used to mean slaughter or enslavement of all its members and seizure of their holdings. Now it can mean just exile of leaders. But it is always a deathpride matter. Wyvans whose call to Oherran is rejected commit suicide.

Hloch's History

On p. 1 of The Earth Book Of Stormgate (New York, 1978), Hloch uses the term "...bloodpride..." interchangeably with "deathpride." These must be two English renderings of a Planha term. I prefer "deathpride," although I do not share Ythrian morality but then I am not an Ythrian.

Hloch's introductions bind together a lot of the Technic History:

"The rest would appear to be everyone's knowledge: how, at last, inevitably, the secret of Mirkheim's existence was ripped asunder; how the contest for its possession brought on the Babur War..." (p. 409)

This refers to the events of Mirkheim.

"...how that struggle turned out to be the first civil war in the Commonwealth..." (ibid.)

That the Commonwealth was destroyed by a series of civil wars had already been established in "The Star Plunderer" and "Sargasso of Lost Starships."

"Eventually the Commonwealth, too, went under. The Troubles were only quelled with the rise and expansion of the Empire -" (ibid.)

The Empire is proclaimed in "The Star Plunderer."

" - and its interior peace is often bought with foreign violence,..." (ibid.)

This could refer to the events of "Sargasso of Lost Starships."

"...as Ythri and Avalon have learned. Honor be forever theirs whose deathpride preserved for us our right to rule ourselves!" (ibid.)

This refers explicitly to The People Of The Wind.

"As for the creation and history of our choth on Avalon, that is in The Sky Book Of Stormgate." (p. 410)

This refers to a book that we do not read but wish we could.

"Hloch has...chosen two final tales...
"The first of them is the last that Judith Dalmady/Lundgren wrote for Morgana." (ibid.)

This refers to the daughter of the central character of "Esau." The "...two final tales..." are boys' adventure juvenile fiction, very different from the pulp magazine short stories already mentioned. Thus, a future history links different narrative types.

Monday, 27 March 2023

Planha Terminology

After watching the second Avatar film with my daughter and granddaughter, I told them that I would prefer to see a film adaptation of Poul Anderson's The People of the Wind. Attempting to share with them the wealth of Anderson's Technic History, I mentioned, e.g., that Avalon is jointly governed by the Parliament of Man and by the Great Khruath of all the choths. It is sometimes necessary to explain Planha terminology to the uninitiated:

choth
Khruath
Wyvan
Oherran
deathpride
"God the Hunter" (different from "God")

"Deathpride" has been translated into Anglic for us but still requires elucidation. Oherran is a deathpride matter. Thus, if a Wyvan's call of Oherran against an individual or group is not heeded, then that Wyvan has no alternative but honourable suicide. Blog readers who are unfamiliar with these terms might:

deduce some of their meaning from the way that I have used them here;
search this blog for previous uses of these terms;
read Anderson's The People of the Wind and The Earth Book of Stormgate.

I describe a choth as the equivalent of a tribe or nation. In fact we are told:

"'...choth.' The Planha term designated a basic social unit, more than a tribe, less than a nation, with cultural and religious dimensions corresponding to nothing human.'"
-"Lodestar," p. 650.

Regarding the religious dimension, Tabitha Falkayn/Hrill says of her choth, Highsky:

"'Most of us keep to the Old Faith, you know.'"
-Poul Anderson, The People of the Wind IN Anderson, Rise of the Terran Empire (Riverdale, NY, March 2011), pp. 437-662 AT VI, p. 502.

- whereas the funeral of Ferune, Wyvan of Mistwood Choth, is conducted according to the New Faith. When the new Wyvan has spoken the words, Ferune's sons tilt his litter and his body falls from a height. He fought God the Hunter well and his spirit will be always remembered.

Monday, 14 April 2025

Early Times...

The People Of The Wind, V.

"In early times, an Oherran on a whole choth meant the end of it - enslavement of whoever had not been slaughtered, division of holdings among the victors." (p. 498)

Slaughter or enslavement of every member? I could not possibly regard that as morally acceptable, Ythrians doing it or no Ythrians doing it. However, the text continues:

"Later it might amount to as little as the arrest and exile of named leaders." (ibid.)

Much better and more appropriate! So Ythrian morality progressed just like that of human beings. You can find slaughter in "our" Old Testament. 

However, Oherran remains a deathpride matter. If an Oherran is not accepted, then the Wyvan who cried it has no alternative to honorable suicide. They are like some Japanese. If I lived on Avalon, then I would want to join a choth but one that had rejected deathpride. The Wyvan could just resign.

Choths have varied:

tribe
anarchism
despotism
loose federation
theocracy
clan
extended family
corporation
other concepts
in Oronesia sometimes, a single family

But we are not shown this variety. What we do see is the usual "...internal ordering...by custom and public opinion rather than by prescription and force." (p.496)

Wednesday, 29 May 2013

Oherran?

Hloch explains the human concept of national government to fellow Ythrians thus:

"...as if a single group could permanently cry Oherran against the rest of society..." (Poul Anderson, The Van Rijn Method, New York, 2009, p. 104)

What is Oherran? When, two volumes of the Baen Books Technic Civilization Saga later, a minority of Avalonian choths opposes proposed defence measures and refuses to contribute, the Wyvan of the High Khruath threatens to call Oherran on them. They yield. (Rise Of The Terran Empire, New York, 2011, p. 494) The President of the Parliament of Man is shocked and also becomes conciliatory. He recognizes that this news is confidential because it would be a deathpride issue for the choths concerned and that to press the matter would risk civil war.

Oherran is a summons to everyone in the territory to attack the defiers of a Khruath decision. If this summons is rejected, then, since it is a deathpride matter, the Wyvans have no alternative to suicide.

"None who knew Liaw of the Tarns imagined he would untruthfully say that he had threatened to rip Avalon asunder." (ibid., p. 498)

Saturday, 7 December 2019

The Origins Of Stormgate Choth III

"Margin of Profit" is in the Earth Book because it is "the best introduction" (p. 69) to Nicholas van Rijn. (Obviously. It is the first van Rijn story. Metafiction all the way here.)

"Esau" is included:

"...because it shows a little more of the philosophy and practice which once animated the Polesotechnic League." (p. 101)

"The Season of Forgiveness" is included first because it shows more of a planet where Falkayn had "...had a significant adventure..." (p. 131) and secondly because it gives a second perspective on a certain "...major human faith..." (ibid.)

The Man Who Counts, set on Diomedes, is included as:

"A major sky-dance portraying Nicholas van Rijn..." (p. 146)

Also:

van Rijn's actions/activities/antics on Diomedes had important consequences for Falkayn's home planet;

winged sophonts are rare and of special interest to Ythrians;

Diomedes is a reminder of that awesomeness before which even deathpride must be humbled.

Notice the connectednesses here:

Diomedes, Hermes and Avalon;
the need for Ythrians to study other flying races and to humble their deathpride.

Anderson and Hloch think of good reasons for inclusion. Three stories remain to be accounted for but can wait until another post. It is time for other late night reading. Having today attended a "Discover Islam" exhibition and event at Lancaster Town Hall, I have some Muslim propaganda to read, an interesting alternative to the various Christian sects.

The Earth Book Of Stormgate reads like a scripture. It has an exodus, a new world, the history of a people, reflections on God the Hunter, conflicting responses to death, Peter Berg's struggle with his God after his wife's death and also other characters going about their secular lives without asking ultimate questions as many do in real life and some in the Bible.

Tuesday, 24 November 2015

Civil And Military Authorities

The Avalonian civil and military authorities are:

the High Wyvan of the Great Khruath of Avalon;
the President of the Parliament of Man;
the First and Second Marchwardens of the Lauran System.

Although Avalon is part of the Domain of Ythri, the High Wyvan of Ythri has no authority to order the Avalonians to cease resistance to the Terran Empire. The Avalonian High Wyvan advises a Terran Admiral:

"'Ythrian practice is not Terran...The worlds of the Domain are tied to each other principally by vows of mutual fidelity. That our fellows are no longer able to help us does not give them the right to order that we cease defending ourselves. If anything, deathpride requires that we continue to fight for what help it might afford them.'"
-Poul Anderson, Rise Of The Terran Empire (New York, 2011), p. 582.

On Avalon itself, Khruath and Parliament vote to continue resistance after the defeat of the rest of the Domain. Somewhere in the text, although I can't find it right now, the High Wyvan of Ythri calls on Avalon to yield for the good of the Domain but that is all that he can do. Avalon is better equipped to resist because some of its human citizens apply the Terran principle of centralized military command but Marchwarden Daniel Holm also invokes the Ythrian concept of "'Deathpride...'" (p. 566)

The novel ends with the Terran War over and Avalon still in the Domain:

"Snowpeaks flamed. The sun stood up in a shout of light.
"High is heaven and holy." (p. 662)

Friday, 26 January 2024

Choth Decision-Making

The People Of The Wind.

The Domain of Ythri is a loose federation, not an empire. Avalon has a human Parliament whose functions are limited both because the planet is sparsely populated and because of Ythrian influence. There are also about a hundred choths on Avalon alone. Each choth is fully democratic but also completely sovereign. They will never surrender their sovereignty to any equivalent of the Solar Commonwealth, let alone the Terran Empire. Daniel Holm has to accept that Domain defence will never be centralized or unified. Avalon must try to cooperate with other Domain planets while also not expecting much outside help.

Every free adult member of a choth votes in the Great Khruath that decides to continue the war against Terra. Before that, individual choths had had to decide whether to support proposed defence measures. Three choths refused. The Wyvans:

"'...threatened to call Oherran on them.'" (V, p. 494)

The three choths yielded.

Wyvans interpret and apply the law. Oherran would mean calling on all other choths to take action against the three. Action could mean slaughter, enslavement and division of spoils or just arrest and exile of named leaders - but, in any case, potential civil war. Either way, it would be a deathpride matter. If the other choths had refused to take action, then the Wyvans would have had no alternative but suicide. I would welcome the full democracy of Khruaths but would prefer to live under human law until a choth could be founded that would reject the deathpride concept. In such a choth, a Wyvan whose cry of Oherran was not accepted would merely resign and Oherrans would fall short of demanding slaughter or enslavement.

The President of the Parliament of Man is shaken to learn, in confidence, that the High Wyvan:

"...had threatened to rip Avalon asunder." (p. 498)

Tuesday, 20 January 2026

The Weathermaker Choth

In Mirkheim, we also see the birth of David and Coya Falkayn's second child, Nicholas, whose son, Nathaniel/Nat, is the viewpoint character of "Wingless" in the Earth Book.

In "Wingless," the Weathermaker Choth (scroll down) is an extended household. Peter Berg tells us that Ythrians live in small groups, either single families or extended households, and also mentions, without explaining, "choths." 

See:

Families, Households And Choths 

Now we are told that one choth, Weathermaker, is identical with an extended household and vice versa. However, choths vary in size and scope so that "Wingless" and Weathermaker do not tell us the whole story of choths but that is as far as we are going to go this evening.

This evening, at our small and informal sf group meeting in the Gregson Institute, two guys said that they were unfamiliar with Isaac Asimov's Foundation books but had appreciated the Foundation TV series online. I replied by extolling Poul Anderson, the Technic History, Ythrians, choths, Khruaths, antlibranches, Oherran, deathpride etc. Let us see all these on screen.

Monday, 30 June 2014

Ythrian Society Is Not A Civilization

Ythrians are winged carnivores but intelligent. The flapping of their wings pumps enough oxygen into their veins to generate the energy needed to lift bodies capable of intelligence in Earth-like gravity. Each Ythrian family needs territory for hunting or herding. The sexes are equal. Parents are bonded by care of children who cling to them in flight, not by sex, which is only when they are in heat.

Their Stone Age was ended not by agriculture but by herding and domestication. Agriculture developed later for fodder. Later, larger, more complex social units are not civilizations because winged Ythrians have never needed cities. Sedentary centers for specific purposes, like mining, industry, trade or religion, are small with floating populations. Since contact with Terrans, machines have mostly replaced wing-clipped slaves while, simultaneously, the Empire reintroduces slavery.

Families are grouped in "choths," diverse in size, organization and tradition. All free adults can participate in democratic meetings called "Khruaths" but the only way to enforce a Khruath decision, if enforcement becomes necessary, is for the presiding officers, the Wyvans, to cry Oherran, calling on everyone in the territory to attack the defiers of the decision. Oherran is a deathpride matter. Wyvans whose call of Oherran is rejected have no honorable course but suicide.

Wednesday, 29 March 2023

Some Avalonian Place Names

Sometimes we are told a Planha word, e.g., "choth." At other times. a Planha word is translated for us, e.g., "deathpride," "Weathermother."

"To those who read, good flight.
"It is Hloch of the Stormgate Choth who writes, on the peak of Mount Anrovil in the Weathermother."
-Poul Anderson, INTRODUCTION WINGS OF VICTORY IN Anderson, The Van Rijn Method (Riverdale, NY, December 2009), pp. 75-77 AT p. 75.

That should be filmed with a scene of clouds blowing past a peak and Hloch's words as voiceover. 

Human Avalonians call the Weathermother range the Andromedas. Avalon is smaller than Earth so that its mountain-forming forces are weaker. In addition, rapid rotation causes violent weather which also makes for a lower surface. The highest Andromeda is only 4500 metres. 

On Earth:

Polynesia means "many islands";
Micronesia means "small islands";
Melanesia means "black islands";
Indonesia means "Indian islands."

On Avalon:

Oronesia means "mountainous islands."

The Oronesian archipelago, occupied by Highsky Choth and many very small choths, crosses the Tropic of Spears and ends near the Antractic Circle. In the northern hemisphere, it separates the Middle Ocean from the Hesperian Sea. Beyond the equator is the South Ocean. Oronesia has a distinct rich ecology and has been a refuge for eccentrics of both species. Colonists originally settled the Hesperian Islands before moving to the northern Coronan continent the size of Australia, stretching past the Tropic of Swords. In the southern hemisphere, Equatoria, New Africa and New Gaiila are large islands or small continents.

Thursday, 10 July 2014

Multiverse: A Linguistic Detail

Greg Bear and Gardner Dozois, Editors, Multiverse:Exploring Poul Anderson's Worlds (Burton, MI, 2014).

This is a minor detail but English becomes:

Anglish in Gregory Benford's "Bloodpride" (p. 331);

Anglic in Poul Anderson's Technic Civilization;

Angelic in Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's post-CoDominium Empire of Man.

Unless my memory is playing tricks in that third case? If not, then the addition of that single letter "e" is brilliant because "Angelic" links both to Anderson's "Anglic" and to the fact that the Empire of Man is officially Christian.

These word roots have been linked before. When one of the two St Augustines saw slaves being unloaded from a boat and inquired as to their identity, he was told, "Angli," and responded, "Non Angli sed angeli" (not Angles but angels). (See here.) Augustine traveled to England (=Angle-land), converted its south-east corner to Christianity and became the first Archbishop of Canterbury or Primate of England.

(On reflection, I prefer Anderson's terms "Ythrians" and "Deathpride" to Benford's "Ythris" and "bloodpride.")

Friday, 31 May 2019

Avalon And Diomedes

Look at this book cover. You might be thinking that those flying beings do not look like Ythrians and that this picture does not look like any scene on either Ythri or Avalon. You would be right.

The Earth Book Of Stormgate collects eleven stories and one novel. Therefore, its contents could be redivided between:

a collection, say five stories;

the novel in a single volume;

another collection of the remaining stories.

This was done. Volume II comprised the single novel, The Man Who Counts, set entirely on the planet Diomedes where the flying natives do indeed have bat-like, not feathered, wings and fight at sea. Thus, this cover image makes sense.

It seems appropriate that, among all the disparate volumes carrying parts of Poul Anderson's Technic History, one book has "Stormgate" in its title and Diomedes on its cover.

In his introduction to the novel, the Avalonian Ythrian historian, Hloch of Stormgate Choth, writes:

"...winged sophonts have a special interest for us, rare as they are. In addition, Diomedes, freak among planets, helps remind of the awesome unforeseeability of the universe, a fact before which starfaring races must humble their very deathpride."
-Poul Anderson, The Earth Book Of Stormgate (New York, 1979), p. 146.

Wednesday, 4 October 2023

Human Avalonians

"As far as we know...Avalon was the first planet whereon two different intelligent species founded a joint colony."
-Poul Anderson, "Wingless" IN Anderson, Rise Of The Terran Empire (Riverdale, NY, March 2011), pp. 293-306 AT p. 295.

By Erannath's time, human Avalonians have accepted the Ythrian view that government is unnecessary. It seems to follow that they have joined choths, live under choth law and participate in Khruaths.

Ythrians have no:

armed nation-states
governments
legislatures
law enforcement agencies

They do have:

a judiciary, the Wyvans
a way to enforce Wyvans' judgements, Oherran
a space navy, purely for external defence

The crucial Planha terms here are:

choth
Khruath
Wyvan
Oherran

- and also "deathpride," which is translated into Anglic for us.

To understand these terms, read The People Of The Wind and/or search this blog. Human Avalonians are indeed a special sort.

Wednesday, 9 November 2016

Acculturation

Daniel Holm deplores his son Christopher's Ythrianization yet he himself invokes the oath to Ythri and even "deathpride" when arguing for continued war against the Terran Empire. (Rise Of The Terran Empire, p. 566) How far can a man be removed from his origins? When Ythri was first contacted in "Wings of Victory," we did not then imagine that, later in the History, there would be human beings loyal to an interstellar Domain of Ythri. Despite her common sense about human-Ythrian relations when speaking to Christopher/Arinnian, Tabitha Falkayn calls herself an Ythrian when speaking with a Terran. (p. 568) Later still, Dennitzan Merseians will be loyal to the Empire.

Human history is a history of cultural fusions. The King James Bible is an entirely English document yet is a translation from Hebrew and Greek. We use Roman letters, descended from Greek, before that from Phoenician, and "Arabic" numerals, originally from India. When I went to a Youth Hostel quiet room to practice Japanese zazen, I was joined by a Japanese man reading his Bible. The guy who runs our meditation group found that not regrettable but amusing. A Jewish man showing a group of students around a synagogue said that, during their service, the Rabbi, having read from the Torah scroll, holds it up above his head for the congregation to see. Our guide commented, "Shades of the elevation of the Host!"

Tuesday, 23 January 2024

Choth Membership

"...because of its nearness to populous Gray, our choth receives more humans into membership than most."
-Poul Anderson, INTRODUCTION WINGS OF VICTORY IN Anderson, The Van Rijn Method (Riverdale, NY, December 2009), pp. 75-77 AT pp. 75-76.

Although advertised here as the introduction to only one story, this passage in fact introduces the entire The Earth Book Of Stormgate.

This passage and The People Of The Wind are the only places where we read about human membership of choths. When Christopher Holm is Arinnian of Stormgate, he speaks Anglic as if interpreting from Planha. Like many other "birds," he imitates Ythrians by not wearing clothes except, e.g., when he needs a coverall and boots to fly by gravbelt from Gray to Lythran's eyrie in the Weathermother. He prefers individual flight to much faster travel by aircar.

"Birds" live under choth law and custom. If I were a human Avalonian, then I would want to join a choth and participate in Khruaths, not Parliament, but it would have to be a choth that combined (what some of us would regard as) the best of human and Ythrian customs. Thus, no deathpride or duels and Oherran only by boycott, not by violence. These terms are explained elsewhere on this blog. Would Wyvans accept such a choth? The choth would appoint its own Wyvans. We are given to understand first that choths vary a great deal and secondly that both species influence each other so I think that my proposal would receive some support.

Monday, 7 April 2025

Planha Terminology

The People Of The Wind.

Khruath (scroll down)
deathpride (always translated into Anglic)

I have found another. 

"Hriccal" is an Ythrian married couple agreeing to separate during their lovetime. I call that a form of contraception but most Ythrians strongly reject contraception as such because it is childcare, not sex, that binds couples together. A child clings to either parent during flight.

Poul Anderson's Technic History is inexhaustible.

Thursday, 10 November 2016

Japan And Avalon

Japanese expiation of dishonor by suicide resembles Ythrian deathpride. The fictional Head of the Japanese Secret Service, Tiger Tanaka, would have been a kami-kaze if World War II had lasted longer.

In conversation with James Bond, Tanaka lets off steam about the American occupation of his country and enforced consumerism. Thus we can imagine Ythrian colonials complaining about the incorporation of their planets into the Terran Empire and the consequent unrestricted immigration.

Rudyard Kipling shows us life, including covert Intelligence operations, in British India. Ian Fleming shows us life, including Intelligence activity, in exotic locations like Jamaica and Japan during the Cold War. Poul Anderson shows us life in the even more exotic location of the planet Avalon as his Terran characters discuss the difficulty of spying within an alien society. Their agents can penetrate the human population of Avalon but cannot learn anything that is not already public knowledge. Human Avalonians no longer think, talk or even walk like Imperials and imitating them is unfeasible. Back on Earth, James Bond must be disguised as a deaf and dumb Japanese miner.

Sunday, 25 January 2026

Telephone Conference

The People Of The Wind, V.

Matthew Vickery, President of the Parliament of Man on Avalon

Liaw of The Tarns, Wyvan of the High Khruath of Avalon

Ferune of Mistwood, First Marchwarden of the Lauran System

Daniel Holm, Second Marchwarden

Liaw discloses, confidentially because this is a deathpride matter for the choths concerned, that three choths had refused to support the latest defence measures but yielded when the Wyvans threatened to call Oherran against them.

A choth's possessions can be a single stretch of land or sea but can also be scattered. For a second time, we are given an implausible sounding list of the possible diversity of choths:

"Tradition determined what constituted a choth, though this was a tradition which slowly changed itself, as every living usage must. Tribe, anarchism, despotism, loose federation, theocracy, clan, extended family, corporation, on and on through concepts for which there are no human words, a choth ran itself." (p. 53)

United action is difficult but this is where Khruaths come in but we in this household are about to set out on a walk.