tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post5060398977792566140..comments2024-03-28T18:59:57.979+00:00Comments on Poul Anderson Appreciation: WAS THE DOMINATION INSPIRED BY MERSEIA? by Sean M. BrooksKetlanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08588156788583883454noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-36889391123717272132015-09-21T08:58:06.557+01:002015-09-21T08:58:06.557+01:00Hi, Ketlan!
The fact you MOSTLY like THE BOAT OF ...Hi, Ketlan!<br /><br />The fact you MOSTLY like THE BOAT OF A MILLION YEARS gives me some consolation! (Smiles) And, from the POV of trying to understand what it is about SF which "turns off" so many people, I'm sure we geeks would be interested in knowing how or why the last third of BOAT was so disappointing to you.<br /><br />In candor, I find most "contemporary" fiction rather dull reading. I fear novels about middle class angst and so on are not to my taste. Too inward looking, perhaps.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-49876057578271222322015-09-21T08:32:56.103+01:002015-09-21T08:32:56.103+01:00Sorry, Sean. It'll probably be an unpopular op...Sorry, Sean. It'll probably be an unpopular opinion on this blog but I really didn't get on with Poul Anderson's work, particularly the Time Patrol, which I lost interest in very quickly. The only book I loved was the Boat of a Million Years and I even found the final third of that disappointing. Not a fan, then, but I can see he has a devoted following. To be honest, I prefer contemporary fiction - meaning fiction set in or around the world in which we live. Anthony Burgess, Jo Nesbo, Stieg Larsson and James Ellroy are particular favourites.Ketlanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08588156788583883454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-5784321515357941672015-09-21T08:27:06.143+01:002015-09-21T08:27:06.143+01:00Kaor, Paul!
I forgot to add to my previous note t...Kaor, Paul!<br /><br />I forgot to add to my previous note that any extermination of an entire intelligent race by the Merseians would be just as brutal or worse as anything done by the Draka. Any such attempt at extermination of an intelligent species means the MASSACRE of untold millions or billions of people. Including wiping out worlds possibly settled by that race.<br /><br />I think even the Draka would hesitate to commit such an atrocity, if only because it would be a wasteful destroying of possibly useful serfs. DRAKON explicitly mentions the preferred Draka policy of genetically modifying a recently discovered non-human/hominid race on a world discovered by small, unmanned "scouts" of the kind sent to other stars by STL means.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-9025465721120742122015-09-21T04:17:03.649+01:002015-09-21T04:17:03.649+01:00Hi, Nicholas!
Thanks for your comments.
Quite tr...Hi, Nicholas!<br /><br />Thanks for your comments.<br /><br />Quite true, villains will RESEMBLE other villains. Else they wouldn't be villains. All the same, I still saw a resemblance in the Merseians and Draka having racial views which seemed very similar in some ways. And then, of course, the genetically modified Zacharians reminded me of how the Draka eventually modified themselves and their serfs using genetics.<br /><br />And one Zacharian character in THE GAME OF EMPIRE did concede that the if circumstances had been right the Zacharians might have become a ruling caste. Of the sort we see the Draka becoming in THE STONE DOGS.<br /><br />And not all European colonialists, or even most of them, were slave/serf owners.<br /><br />I still wonder if Stirling was unconsciously influenced by the Roidhunate and its racial ideology. I hope he sees my article and comments on it himself.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-78788473237997182562015-09-21T02:48:15.260+01:002015-09-21T02:48:15.260+01:00This is an intriguing possibility, but ?I don'...This is an intriguing possibility, but ?I don't think the Draka owe much to the Mereseians. They owe something to the Nazis, the Romans, European colonialists, the Old South, etc. To the extent they resemble the Merseians, villainous societies or races are likely to resemble each other, even if they are independent inventions, or they wouldn't be villainous. This is not to exclude the possibility of Merseian influence on Stirling's imagination.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Nicholas RosenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-24690211037931699422015-09-20T22:08:02.655+01:002015-09-20T22:08:02.655+01:00Hi, David!
Understood, what you said about about...Hi, David! <br /><br />Understood, what you said about about the need both to avoid duplication or already having been, as you might believe, been proven wrong on this or that point. But, let me continue to encourage you to write an article of your own if the inspiration strikes you.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-77754061985359114032015-09-20T22:05:18.623+01:002015-09-20T22:05:18.623+01:00David,
It doesn't matter if you say what has b...David,<br />It doesn't matter if you say what has been said before or if you say something that is shown to be completely wrong. It's the discussion that counts. I have repeated myself on the blog because I forgot what I had said before. You don't even need a thesis, just reasons why you like a particular work or even accidental associations that one work has for you that it doesn't have for anyone else. You don't even need to heed what I'm saying now although you might later!<br />Paul.Paul Shackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04180596532266581425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-51308661124586500322015-09-20T21:54:25.781+01:002015-09-20T21:54:25.781+01:00Paul and Sean:
I fear it'll be quite a while, ...Paul and Sean:<br />I fear it'll be quite a while, if ever, before I feel ready to write an article, as opposed to the minor (hopefully helpful) notes I've been posting. For one thing, I'd need to check systematically through the entire blog to make sure no one else had already done a better job of saying what I meant to say -- or, worse, proved my intended thesis wrong before I even began! And right at the moment I don't HAVE an intended thesis in mind. Still, I appreciate the encouragement.David Birrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08973889429164886381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-6173559939632717342015-09-20T21:20:26.041+01:002015-09-20T21:20:26.041+01:00Kaor, Paul!
The thing to remember about the Draka...Kaor, Paul!<br /><br />The thing to remember about the Draka is that they are EFFICIENT tyrants--they don't make the stupid, counterproductive, and simply WASTEFUL mistakes so typical of the Communists and Nazis. Quite simply, if a serf obeys his Draka overlords, they will, by their own lights, treat him mildly and take care of him.<br /><br />Yes, I do agree, the Draka are constantly risking serf revolts, any of which might be successful. Unfortunately, so far, by skillful us of both the carrot and stick, such revolts were either prevented or quickly put down. And, later, non Draka humans were genetically modified to be DISINCLINED to rebel against the Domination.<br /><br />Understood, what you said about Ketlan. Drat! <br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-20487758179759098242015-09-20T09:16:44.102+01:002015-09-20T09:16:44.102+01:00Kaor, Paul!
I'm certainly vain enough to hop...Kaor, Paul!<br /> <br />I'm certainly vain enough to hope my owe "scribblings" interests some readers! One reason why I contribute these occasional essays is because help make up for me no longer being able to write to Poul Anderson himself. After 1994 I regret to say I stopped writing to him--at least partly because I found the ideas and themes of his late phase books so strange and difficult that I needed time to assimilate them. Alas, PA died just as I think I was again getting ready to write a letter to him.<br /><br />And many readers also "come" here to read what YOU say! (Smiles)<br /><br />And I hope David or anyone else will be inspired to try their hand at writing an article.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-18701286780765191272015-09-20T08:58:03.197+01:002015-09-20T08:58:03.197+01:00Sean,
As before, you are bringing in the page view...Sean,<br />As before, you are bringing in the page views.<br /><br />David,<br />Submit an article on any aspect of Poul Anderson's works?<br /><br />Paul.Paul Shackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04180596532266581425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-68178466317381938572015-09-20T08:49:36.611+01:002015-09-20T08:49:36.611+01:00Sean,
Well, UNDER THE YOKE is a long time coming. ...Sean,<br />Well, UNDER THE YOKE is a long time coming. <br />The Draka are brutal by policy whereas the Merseians prefer domestication and would even prefer extermination to perpetual repression. Nandalsson says that the Draka are fulfilled by imposing their will against the will of others. They continually risk successful rebellion.<br />I suspect that Ketlan does not comment often because he has read far less Anderson.<br />Paul. Paul Shackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04180596532266581425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-65637487494004216592015-09-20T06:39:09.007+01:002015-09-20T06:39:09.007+01:00Hi, Ketlan!
Many thanks! I thought of asking you...Hi, Ketlan!<br /><br />Many thanks! I thought of asking you but didn't want to trouble you.<br /><br />And have you any thoughts or comments about what I wrote? I won't be offended if you disagreed with me!<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-55492109706413913052015-09-20T06:30:51.317+01:002015-09-20T06:30:51.317+01:00Done. :)Done. :)Ketlanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08588156788583883454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-11431262303939562382015-09-20T06:12:05.026+01:002015-09-20T06:12:05.026+01:00Kaor, Paul!
I know this is petty, but could a mis...Kaor, Paul!<br /><br />I know this is petty, but could a mistake I made in the fourth paragraph of my article be corrected? In that paragraph I misquoted from Chapter 20 of THE GAME OF EMPIRE a text beginning: " ' We OWN the Terran Empire nothing.' " The correct reading is: " ' We OWE the Terran Empire nothing.' "<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-80364260663197438612015-09-20T01:19:36.061+01:002015-09-20T01:19:36.061+01:00Kaor, Paul!
You think you might not get UNDER THE...Kaor, Paul!<br /><br />You think you might not get UNDER THE YOKE at all? Drat! I hope a second order is more successful.<br /><br />And I have noticed how often you discuss Anderson's Time Patrol series! (Smiles)<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-89812282322825672312015-09-20T01:02:46.358+01:002015-09-20T01:02:46.358+01:00Sean,
UNDER THE YOKE is long delayed and I fear th...Sean,<br />UNDER THE YOKE is long delayed and I fear the worst but meanwhile I have found plenty to say about the Time Patrol.<br />Paul.Paul Shackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04180596532266581425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-31017455686135496662015-09-20T00:55:16.185+01:002015-09-20T00:55:16.185+01:00Kaor, Paul!
S.M. Stirling's Draka books are ...Kaor, Paul! <br /><br />S.M. Stirling's Draka books are grimly fascinating! He manages to make me think it was possible for people like the Draka to conquer and rule, despite the implausibility of the premise that everything which could possibly go wrong that would lead to the rise of the Draka WOULD go wrong.<br /><br />Yes, I agree, the Merseians, most of them at least, are NOT as brutal as the Draka. Altho I would still argue that their racist ideology would make it easier for some Merseians to be that bad.<br /><br />Yes, I believe the intention of Matthew Zachary was to genetically adapt a group of humans who would rise to become the leaders of mankind within Technic Civilization as a whole. And not to become a dictatorial caste, altho Kukulcan Zachary admitted that might have been possible in the right circumstances.<br /><br />The impression I got from Stirling's Draka books that the Race would deliberately keep some sectors of their economy at a lower technological level precisely to make it practical to use large numbers of serfs. Agriculture and certain types of industry comes to mind. And, high technology would still be used by the Draka themselves and trusted serfs.<br /><br />I'm looking forward to your comments on UNDER THE YOKE and how that Stirling books compares to any relevant works by Poul Anderson.<br /><br />And thanks for keeping my "Was the Domination Inspired by Merseia?" essay at the top of your blog for another week!<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-90354517463382669882015-09-19T22:29:32.753+01:002015-09-19T22:29:32.753+01:00To anyone reading these comments:
We let articles ...To anyone reading these comments:<br />We let articles by Sean (and by anyone else who wants to submit one) stay at the top of the blog for a week to maximize their exposure. However, I continue to post and my new posts appear under Sean's article.<br />Paul.Paul Shackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04180596532266581425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-54791883685670677302015-09-19T21:43:54.226+01:002015-09-19T21:43:54.226+01:00Sean,
Draka society is unique. A very few Draka en...Sean,<br />Draka society is unique. A very few Draka enslave a vast population, differentiated by race, treat them as inferiors and brutally crush resistance, even publicly torturing rebellious "serfs" as an example to others. The Merseians do not do this. <br />What did Matthew Zachary mean by the best possible leaders? He might just have meant what I would mean by leaders: individuals able to give a lead within society as a whole. Did he instead mean a small group that would dictatorially rule everyone else? If the latter, then they might become like the Draka on a planet with a low technological base but a large population of "serfs" would be redundant and counterproductive in a civilization with an advanced technology?<br />Paul.Paul Shackleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04180596532266581425noreply@blogger.com