tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post250022948801787588..comments2024-03-28T17:35:04.736+00:00Comments on Poul Anderson Appreciation: Grim GoddessKetlanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08588156788583883454noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-26690620357222391132023-05-31T08:03:54.984+01:002023-05-31T08:03:54.984+01:00Kaor, Jim!
Oops! I thought they were one and the ...Kaor, Jim!<br /><br />Oops! I thought they were one and the same person, that I was misspelling the name.<br /><br />Ad astra! SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-77322689837258895612023-05-30T18:38:15.105+01:002023-05-30T18:38:15.105+01:00Note that the last names are merely similar.
Hesel...Note that the last names are merely similar.<br />Heselton and Heseltine are probably not even related except in having an interest in the occult, with one apparently believing in it and the other not believing. Jim Baerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182949391365921637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-11852808604882776872023-05-29T22:40:54.256+01:002023-05-29T22:40:54.256+01:00Kaor, Jim!
I certainly don't object to Heselt...Kaor, Jim!<br /><br />I certainly don't object to Heselton composing interesting music.<br /><br />Ad astra! SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-55219828618232594562023-05-29T21:02:13.201+01:002023-05-29T21:02:13.201+01:00Mention of "Phillip Heseton" made me thi...Mention of "Phillip Heseton" made me think of this fellow<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Warlock<br />birth name Phillip Arnold Heseltine.<br />He died in 1930 and was interested in 'occult practices'.<br />It sounds like he was probably associated with people who might have later been involved in the founding of neo-paganism.<br />BTW I do like some of his music.Jim Baerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182949391365921637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-2956241287574258002017-03-22T14:18:34.001+00:002017-03-22T14:18:34.001+00:00I garbled the second sentence of my comment immedi...I garbled the second sentence of my comment immediately above. I mean to write "I recall reading of how one reason, among many others, why Christianity supplanted what I have to consider the real pagan religions was because Our Lord was HISTORICAL."<br /><br />Drat! SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-11314594628163574772017-03-22T14:13:20.461+00:002017-03-22T14:13:20.461+00:00Dear Mr. Stirling,
Thanks for commenting. I agre...Dear Mr. Stirling, <br /><br />Thanks for commenting. I agree all religions or philosophies or traditions have to start SOMETIME. But I have to otherwise disagree with Juniper--because TRUTH and facts are important. I recall reading of how one reason, among many others, while Christianity what I have consider the real pagan religions was because Our Lord was HISTORICAL, not mythical. That is, He actually lived and taught during the reign of Tiberius. And St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15 discussed how he had sought out WITNESSES who had seen the Risen Lord. Christ was/is a real PERSON, not some vague, amorphously defined neo-pagan "Lord and Lady."<br /><br />So, I have to disagree with Juniper MacKenzie.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-9061774382242326942017-03-22T03:31:27.297+00:002017-03-22T03:31:27.297+00:00Back-dating and made-up sources are the staples of...Back-dating and made-up sources are the staples of esotericism! However, as Juniper notes, all traditions have to start -somewhere-. (She starts out swallowing the Gardnerian account and then later decides it just isn't important, except as myth.) S.M. Stirlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091131550027851275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-72535919958734786182017-03-21T15:15:25.726+00:002017-03-21T15:15:25.726+00:00Kaor, Paul!
This matter of the New Forest coven m...Kaor, Paul!<br /><br />This matter of the New Forest coven may never be satisfactorily resolved, due to lack of trustworthy sources. Gardner may have come across some kind of esoteric sect in the 1930's, but the "coven" does not seem to have antedated the Thirties. And thus was NOT ancient. Or Gardner may have simply invented that story. As you said, DUBIOUS!<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-10393946072329339002017-03-21T08:20:16.389+00:002017-03-21T08:20:16.389+00:00Sean,
There seem to be at least 2 questions: was t...Sean,<br />There seem to be at least 2 questions: was the New Forest coven real or fictional? If the former, was it really a survival of an ancient tradtion or was it founded in the 20th century? Heselton seems to have thought that the coven might have been real but not that it was a survival. Even Gardner's own account as quoted does not sound very convincing. He heard a word during his initiation and realized that here was a surviving tradition.<br />Paul.paulshackley2017@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704115766930975286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3538502828554372917.post-35938106461332140312017-03-21T07:16:52.554+00:002017-03-21T07:16:52.554+00:00Kaor, Paul!
Given his personal experiences with t...Kaor, Paul!<br /><br />Given his personal experiences with the real paganism religions of the past, I think Manse Everard's impatience with the wistful speculations of the neo-pagans made sense. I also had in mind what PA said about the Eddaic relgion in his Foreword to HROLK KRACI'S SAGA about "heathen rites bloody or obscene." Poul Anderson was simply being realistic about the neo-pagans.<br /><br />I'm not quite sure the comments you quoted about Heselton were correct. Another writer, Chas S. Clifton, has criticized Heselton for being too willing to accept Gerald Gardner's dubious tales about the origins of Wiccaism. Clifton even says Gardner invented Wicca as late as the 1950's. And that the New Forest coven was fictional.<br /><br />SeanSean M. Brookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973738112230622557noreply@blogger.com